Jakarta would object as they are fervent anti communist but perhaps though what about the kingdom of laos?
DBWI: No Sino-Soviet War
- Thread starter colonel
- Start date
I imagine it would be crawling with fighters, at least in the south. Maybe it is annexed to... What is the current name of that Burma/Siam conglomerate? I never can spell or pronounce it.
colonel
Donor
Not all technology benefited in the short run. Had there not been a war the space race would have continued. We would surely be on Mars. Remember after the lunar landing in July 1969 Nixon suspended manned space flights citing the conflict aftermath. It to over a decade to restart. They could have landed on the moon again by 2017, but the US, Commonwealth and European joint mission waited until the 50th anniversary to return. With the radiation shelter and shielding technology developed after the nuclear exchanges we were able to develop a base less than 14 months after landing, but Mars is still 3 years away.
colonel
Donor
Definitely. No way does the good out weigh the bad, but as already cited medical research into cancer, radiation and burns all are likely much further along then they would be without the conflict, The same for robotics, and drones. The science of Radiological Recovery likely wouldn’t exist. As stated above these technologies allowed for unmanned missions to have a lunar base well along even before the return of humans in 2019, and although we won’t land a human on Mars before 2024 the first shelters are already en route. Bad - I believe we would have been on Mars by the end of the 20th century without the war, but without the tech developed from the ill effects permanent bases off earth would take much longer after initial landings to safely develop.
going to disagree with the idea we would be further ahead.
its true nixon killed the space program but Reagan brought it back with the star wars program people forget just how terrified people were of nuclear war and the idea of protecting yourself from nuclear attack was a tempting one. When computers got better and people thought it was possible nasa had money shoved into it to develope defenses. The russians hated it but no one trusted them after China expecially not the west. Our current progress owes a lot to that decade.
its true nixon killed the space program but Reagan brought it back with the star wars program people forget just how terrified people were of nuclear war and the idea of protecting yourself from nuclear attack was a tempting one. When computers got better and people thought it was possible nasa had money shoved into it to develope defenses. The russians hated it but no one trusted them after China expecially not the west. Our current progress owes a lot to that decade.
colonel
Donor
What three things are likely to happen or not happen without the war? I'll go first.
1. Other nuclear exchanges - Likely, maybe not the middle east, but India/Pakistan almost definitely.
2. Non-Italian Pope - Unlikely, a Polish Pope was just not going to happen if you didn't have all the turmoil the church needed to address in the East. I will also say but for him there would be no communion between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Likely you would still have the schism that developed with the Anglican rite with the Roman Catholics welcoming the conservative elements that split.
3. Africa- The technologies that were spun off in the aftermath did much to alleviate suffering in sub-Sahara Africa ( and much of Latin America as well), but I think neither Rhodesia or South Africa would have had Apartheid into the 1975 never mind 1991, were it not for the rest of the world being afraid of what they would do with their nukes.
1. Other nuclear exchanges - Likely, maybe not the middle east, but India/Pakistan almost definitely.
2. Non-Italian Pope - Unlikely, a Polish Pope was just not going to happen if you didn't have all the turmoil the church needed to address in the East. I will also say but for him there would be no communion between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. Likely you would still have the schism that developed with the Anglican rite with the Roman Catholics welcoming the conservative elements that split.
3. Africa- The technologies that were spun off in the aftermath did much to alleviate suffering in sub-Sahara Africa ( and much of Latin America as well), but I think neither Rhodesia or South Africa would have had Apartheid into the 1975 never mind 1991, were it not for the rest of the world being afraid of what they would do with their nukes.
Last edited:
Deleted member 109224
Without the PRC invasion of Soviet-aligned North Vietnam, does South Vietnam still survive?
The Albanian front of the Sino-Soviet war was the weirdest. So many Russian paratroopers dropping into fields of Albanian bunkers...
North Korea chose wisely by going with the Soviets. Getting the old boundaries of Goguryeo was quite the prize.
The Albanian front of the Sino-Soviet war was the weirdest. So many Russian paratroopers dropping into fields of Albanian bunkers...
North Korea chose wisely by going with the Soviets. Getting the old boundaries of Goguryeo was quite the prize.
Last edited by a moderator:
Certainly one of the more pointless fronts, given Yugoslavia was in the way.
On the plus side, we might not have video games if not for Airspace Invaders.
Last edited:
I actually remember reading about this part of his. Apparently, Japan and South Korea knew they'd be the worst hit by fallout once they realized that a Sino-Soviet conflict was inevitable in the mid 60s. The resulting cancer research might not only have been butterflied, but South Korea might still be bitter about Japan's pre-1945 actions seeing as said research was a major contribution in healing relationships between the two.
colonel
Donor
You misunderstand because they made it a territory and then renamed it a "fee State " in association with the US, similar to the Marshall Islands. They only did that because the Japanese were already overwhelmed with cleaning up the Sakhalin and Kuril islands after they got them back from the old Soviet Union, and the Americans were better positioned to clean up Okinawa. Unless Okinawa grows to enjoy the autonomy they have now they'll likely go back to Japan within the decade.
There might be a more militarist Edge to American Culture if there hadn't been the Sino-Soviet War and the following exchanges. I live in Texas, and while you can see edges of military pride, it's always dampened by the 'Nuclear Ghost'. The Exchanges of the Sino-Soviet War and the aftermath had a MASSIVE effect on the whole world, but you can see a suprising one in American Culture. America may not have a monopoly of Nuclear Force, but we have the biggest projected arsenal on the planet, and everyone knows it. Not only that, because of the Collapse of China and the Soviet Civil War, there are ALOT of Free Nukes. Americans have a strong Military, as the surviving Superpower, but we're now traditionally leery of actually going to war unless it's absolutely necessary. Hell, what finally broke Republican Winning Streak on the White House was Bush Jr. starting to make noise about invading Iraq for having WMDs.
Well true but recent poll shows they enjoy being a state (likely due to the increased us attention there wanting it looking like a paradise amidst 2 giant fighting and the wasteland it create) and not to mention the movement for a return to the russian republic is housed there but if china and soviets didnt go to war i would guess they would be apart of japan
colonel
Donor
South Vietnam is likely similar today to what South Korea was before the Sino-Soviet War.
The Albania and Yugoslavia incursions were hardly a front. The Soviets did this to send a message to the bordering Warsaw Pact nations that they shouldn't stray just because of the war with China - telling them Moscow's reach was long. Needless to say it backfired spectacularly when troops were withdrawn in just over 2 weeks.
I would agree with you about Goguryeo except the first thing newly unified The Republic of Korea did was follow the UN resolution to renounce all claims north of the Yalu .
Speaking of the UN how would reform of that body in the 1980s have differed without the War?
It wasn’t just awkward it was downright embarrassing because the paratroopers started running out of food because the planes and ships that was supposed to reach Albania to bring them more supplies couldn’t get there so they had to rely on scouring the countryside along with trading stuff to Yugoslavian and Greek border guards to acquire stuff they needed.
colonel
Donor
Well there certainly were a lot of free nukes. Everyone thought there would be another war between Israel and her Arab neighbors and Israel would have to use nuclear weapons. The Sino-Soviet War sidelining Soviet support for the Arab states, meant that was not to be. The next war was in 1981 when Iraq attacked Kuwait, and we saw Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and Syria form a coalition to repel the attack (with not so secret logistical support from Israel). After Saddam Hussein nuked Teheran, and threatened the other coalition parters with the same, the whole world was shocked when Iran nuked Baghdad and killed Hussein. Iraq had claimed the nuke they used (and the other three found after their surrender) was of their own making, but it was obvious the only work they had done on them was to scratch off the hammer and sickle markings. In fairness I should remind you of the joke that the Shah personally painted over the Star of David on the nuke Iran launched in retaliation.
