In case you don't know the Northeastern portion of the Polish Commonwealth used to be an independent nation called Russia. However, this nation was absorbed into Poland in 1585. What if they had managed to remain an independent nation? What sort of influence might they have had on Eastern Europe?
DBWI: Independent Russia?
- Thread starter SeaBos
- Start date
You mean, Tver principality, yes?. Because other princelets could not hold even their backyards (and actually welcomed Poles to defend them from... well everyone around - Tatars, Swedes, Livonians... not to mention Tver itself). Well, it is possible, if they successfully claim legacy of Vladimir predecessors, but you need some earlier PoD, maybe around XIII-century Mongol invasion. While they never held the territory - too cold for them, I'd guess - they repeatedly raided it for generations. There was of course, Rus before, if I recall correctly, XII century, but it's unity was doubtful.
If Poland occupied elsewhere (or alt-*Bathory less interested in region, and more concerned about Turks, who subsequently gave sooo much trouble to his successors), there may exist some kind of independent country still. Though, I'd guess it would be subjugated by Sweden in XVII-XVIII centuries. Not sure if they annex them though, after all when there was briefly Poland-Sweded Empire in OTL XVIII, and at dissolution Swedes had no desire to claim Zakraina, even if it was closer to Scandinavia then Poland proper.
More like some kind of puppet state established. Maybe even granted full independence in XX century like Norway and Suomi.
If Poland occupied elsewhere (or alt-*Bathory less interested in region, and more concerned about Turks, who subsequently gave sooo much trouble to his successors), there may exist some kind of independent country still. Though, I'd guess it would be subjugated by Sweden in XVII-XVIII centuries. Not sure if they annex them though, after all when there was briefly Poland-Sweded Empire in OTL XVIII, and at dissolution Swedes had no desire to claim Zakraina, even if it was closer to Scandinavia then Poland proper.
More like some kind of puppet state established. Maybe even granted full independence in XX century like Norway and Suomi.
trurle
Banned
The expansion of the Polish Commonwealth to East was possible due dynastic struggle of the fledgling Russian Tsardom (1548-1585). Assuming elite left after bloody rule of Ivan the Terrible would be able to agree on a suitable successor, the Russian Tsardom would become a power to recon with. Unfortunately, given how much elite was wiped out by Ivan the Terrible, the likelihood of widespread civil war over succession was close to 100%. The state emergent from such civil war would be significantly weakened, likely delaying the defeat of the decaying Khanates on east borders by 3-4 decades, until the population losses will be replenished. The result would be the Siberia populated significantly sparser. For example, the transcontinental Siberian Railroad will be completed in 1905 instead of 1870 as it happened in our Polish Commonwealth. Also, Ottoman Empire is likely to collapse later, although it would be a far-fetched suggestion. Opposite may be equally true as Polish armies of our history were known for the long record of ineptness, due reliance on attrition strategies. With smaller both Polish Commonwealth and Russian Tsardom, the overall fighting quality of Christendom may actually improve.
A Russian nation united by a Russian principality is very unlikely, but what about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania? Before the Commonwealth, it used to hold a large portion of the east Slavic territory, and if they chose Orthodoxy instead of Catholicism, they could have reasonably achieved the same effect that you seek for here.