DBWI: Did "Barbarossa" ever have a chance of success?

[The Oncoming Storm]

Comrades! Soon we mark the 70th Anniversary of the foolhardy attempt by the Nazi cannibal regime to violate the Glorious Soviet Motherland! The complete failure of "Operation Barbarossa" is regarded as the greatest military disaster of the 20th Century. To think that they could have thought that they could have pushed all the way to Moscow despite leaving it so late in the year and not making full preparations for the war!

On this anniversary I can't help but wonder if they ever had a realistic chance of achieving victory or where the Glorious Soviet Armed Forces under the inspired leadership of the Marshal of the Soviet Union too well prepared to fail? How could the Great Patriotic War have developed? I know some of you may think it shameful to entertain such thoughts but our glasnost is well established now!

 

[zeno]

As much as it hurts me to say given how much we yanks and soviets rag on each other a german victory over the USSR is ASB. Well credit where credits due the nazis were worse then the commies, and at the very least it kept us from being involved in yet another european war. So it all worked out in the end I guess.

 

[Teshuvah]

Unlikely. The Soviets knew the terrain far better than the Germans did, and Hitler was an idiot for not equipping his soldiers properly for the harsh climate. Heck, he was lucky to get to Crimea before the Soviets started pushing back.

 

[Ze Kaiser]

I also recall that Hitler had horrible timing skills. If our armed forces had somehow failed to initially stop it, he probably would've scheduled the blasted plan so that the Germans would have to deal with the worst of General Winter.

 

[King Nazar]

Hitler, like Napoleon, would not be able to survive the wrath of the Russian winter.

 

[1.36]

Yes....if the coup in Yugoslavia did not take place, the Germans would have invaded the USSR in may, not june....that allows them another month before they got bogged down in the Ukraine and the Soviet counter-offensive began.

Still, I bet that if the Germans were still better prepared and attacked earlier, they'd still likely only get to the gates of Moscow.

But hey, having the Soviets on the Rhine is better than the Soviets on the channel! (As I've seen in some TLs!) After the German collapse on the eastern front, the British, FFF, and Canadians easily enacted Operation Sledgehammer! The Germans had to divert troops to Poland by January of 42' and left Calais a sitting duck for a cross channel invasion. The result, as mentioned above, was the allied armies meeting along the Rhine...to bad the Brits couldn't move farther east...

 

[Snowstalker]

As much as it hurts me to say given how much we yanks and soviets rag on each other a german victory over the USSR is ASB. Well credit where credits due the nazis were worse then the commies, and at the very least it kept us from being involved in yet another european war. So it all worked out in the end I guess.

HA! The capitalist dogs still resist? I thought we defeated the American dogs 50 years ago!

 

[1.36]

HA! The capitalist dogs still resist? I thought we defeated the American dogs 50 years ago!

What are you talking about? The Space Race? Well duh! You guys got all of those rockets and scientists from Germany!

We're lucky that we ever got a man into space at this point....

 

[zeno]

What are you talking about? The Space Race? Well duh! You guys got all of those rockets and scientists from Germany!

We're lucky that we ever got a man into space at this point....

well even though we lost the space race we still created the internet and create the best electronics on earth.

 

[jakewilson]

It is possible that the People's state could have been militarily defeated by the fascist dogs, but that would be a temporary setback only. Historical materialism dictates that the European proletariat would have succeeded in breaking the chains of bourgeois-reactionary oppression eventually. Everything the fascists did to slow the advance of the revolution only sped up the wheel of history.

 

[Maniakes]

Seriously? Another "Unmentionable Crusader" thread? Use the search feature, it's there for a reason.

In summer 1941, the glorious Soviet Union outnumbered the fascist forces 3.8:1 in tanks (not to mention considerable quality differences), 2.5:1 in combat aircraft, and 1.4:1 in artillery. They also had better leadership, better logistics infrastructure, better morale and discipline, and far better logistics infrastructure (the Germans would have had to rely heavily on horses and mules if they managed to breach the frontiers, planned to rely largely on foraging for food, and had no plans whatsoever for bringing winter supplies to the front). It would have been a curbstomp of epic proportions.

 

[sonicnerd23]

Indeed, comrades, Barbarossa was a complete failure. The fascist rats probably were not expecting that we had been prepared for them. It is a great thing that our glorious leader Stalin had been well-informed of the Nazis' planned offensive and ordered a mobilization of our forces, otherwise we would have lost several men to those dogs.

I think the only way the Nazis could have struck a significant blow to our Motherland was if Comrade Stalin was afraid of provoking them by mobilizing our forces, as if he wanted to stall until next year to be sure the army was at its best, but alas, such a thing is not possible, as Comrade Stalin fears no one!

 

[Julia Augusta]

Why do the mods even allow these threads to continue to exist. Why shouldn't we just stick a thread containing of all the Barbossa threads so the people who are curious on how it would work can just see it there easily.

 

[Kooluk Swordsman]

Had the Germans "liberated" the USSR instead of "taking-every-measure-possible-to-piss-off-and-oppress-the-peoples"-ed the USSR, I think so. But that would require a nice, loving Nazi Party that wanted to unite Europe under a tolerate and all-inclusive banner, so maybe a POD during Hitler's early life.

 

[loughery111]

HA! The capitalist dogs still resist? I thought we defeated the American dogs 50 years ago!

One continues to see the high quality of the Soviet educational establishment at work. (No, really, the propaganda and indoctrination truly are of superb quality. If only the education were too... )

 

[zeno]

One continues to see the high quality of the Soviet educational establishment at work. (No, really, the propaganda and indoctrination truly are of superb quality. If only the education were too... )

I keep hearing you have to pass a idological purity test in order to be allowed on the web over in the soviet areas. I think said test keeps a lot of the more relaxed russians off the net. That said as bad as the russians can be its nothing next to flame wars between the northern and southern chinese republics.

 

[informationfan]

Comrades! Soon we mark the 70th Anniversary of the foolhardy attempt by the Nazi cannibal regime to violate the Glorious Soviet Motherland! The complete failure of "Operation Barbarossa" is regarded as the greatest military disaster of the 20th Century. To think that they could have thought that they could have pushed all the way to Moscow despite leaving it so late in the year and not making full preparations for the war!

On this anniversary I can't help but wonder if they ever had a realistic chance of achieving victory or where the Glorious Soviet Armed Forces under the inspired leadership of the Marshal of the Soviet Union too well prepared to fail? How could the Great Patriotic War have developed? I know some of you may think it shameful to entertain such thoughts but our glasnost is well established now!

Hi,

with the cruel politics of nazi occupation the germans never could have won in the long run

without it, they win easily, cause stalin and co. were really hated.
So, creating a lot independent nations (like today), they have enough support (instead of combat in the rear), so even if the make the same mistakes in combat like they did in 1941, they will win in the east.

but this change the whole war, without nazis it is no the cruel clash of tyranny vers. tyranny, but liberation of suppressed people from bolshewik terror

 

[Teshuvah]

Hi,

with the cruel politics of nazi occupation the germans never could have won in the long run

without it, they win easily, cause stalin and co. were really hated.
So, creating a lot independent nations (like today), they have enough support (instead of combat in the rear), so even if the make the same mistakes in combat like they did in 1941, they will win in the east.

but this change the whole war, without nazis it is no the cruel clash of tyranny vers. tyranny, but liberation of suppressed people from bolshewik terror

OOC: Axis victory + repelled USSR invasion = Invalid expression.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

Did Napoleon ever have a success? Wait...he actually got further than the Nazis did, so perhaps we can say yes, if we were comparing Napoleon to Hitler...but that is improbable and impossible.

So no!.

 

[kclcmdr]

What if Herr Hitler had rescinded his order to transfer General Erwin Rommel on Feb 12, 1941 to Africa with elements of the 5th Light Division and the 15th Panzer Division and cobble up two more Infantry/Motorized Divisions and transferred all Logistical supplies that would have gone to German Units that would have gone to Africa and constituted a new Armoured Corp under same General Erwin Rommel's command and attach his Korp to Army Group North for the drive towards Riga and possibly Leningrad??

Would One more Armoured Korp with all the logistical supplies that would have been sent to Africa now diverted for Rommel's own Panzer Corp have assisted Army Group North in their drive to reach these two targets??