DBWI: Dictatorial USSR, Democratic US

So, today is the 80th anniversary of the defeat of General Butler and his Republican forces during the Second American Civil War, thus ensuring that the United States fell to a military right-wing dictatorship that lasted for over 50 years, before it, and the United States, collapsed in 1991. However, that got me thinking. What if the "Business Coup" was not pulled off in 1934? What if the US had remained Democratic?

Then I started thinking about a role reversal. What if, say, Stalin hadn't died under "mysterious circumstances," in 1931, and the USSR didn't begin its path towards democraticization. What if, after World War II, the superpowers ended up being a republican United States and a USSR still under the sway of Stalinism. How might the Cold War had ended up?
 
While the USSR may have been freer than America after WW2, it's still far from a perfect democracy. While opposition parties are allowed to exist, they must conform to the criteria set forth by the Electoral Board. And there is still the occasional forced disappearance of people with dangerous ideas.
 
I think that's improbable. Real democraties are always associated with more communistic societies, since the days of primitive communism. **

The elitist nature of American constitution could be traced back to its foundation, i.e. the Electorial Collage etc., which could in turn be traced back to the institutions set up after of British Civil War and Glorious Revolution.

If e Levellers had more gains during the British Revolution, probably it could bring the Anglo-Saxon societies closer to communism, therefore raise the stakes for democracy.

Or probably religion could help? Chinese Taoism was a huge factor in the success of China's anarcho-communist democracy, could the egalitarian nature of Christianity do the same to the United States?

**Ooc: this is probably what people ITTL might think.
 
Who knows, Russia may still be under the thumb of a red Tsar. The US might have held together.

Russia certainly would be more atheist or secular. Georgy Malenkov seemed quite willing to work with Church as part of his populist program. Nowadays Putin seems to bringing back a lot polices from the 'glory days' of Malenkov, he probably wants to rule for thirty years too!
 
Maybe you should have the progressives be more successful in the pre-WWI period, when the consolidation of economic of power into monopolistic trusts presented a threat to democratic institutions. Unfortunately a series of Supreme Court decisions prevented this bourgeois movement from destroying monopolistic capitalism from taking root.

With a much more liberal America, the Business Plot (which, IMO, was poorly planned) would have failed.
 
We definitely wouldn't have seen the Special Relationship between the USSR and Japan. Under Emperor Nobuhito Japan moved away from Britain, and anti colonialism became synonymous with democratic socialism. With America as a democracy maybe Japan would have stayed a dictatorship.
 
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With a much more liberal America, the Business Plot (which, IMO, was poorly planned) would have failed.

Very ironic that General Butler (considered the man who, along with Patton, sacrificed himself trying to save American democracy with the Bonus Army) was the first one they approached, before they ultimately choose MacArthur. Shows the lack of cohesive planning that actually went into the plot.
 
We definitely wouldn't have seen the Special Relationship between the USSR and Japan. Under Emperor Nobuhito Japan moved away from Britain, and anti colonialism became synonymous with democratic socialism. With America as a democracy maybe Japan would have stayed a dictatorship.

Yes, anti-colonialism...though it was funny how many of the post-colonial nations in Asia became part of the Japanese-led Asian Co-Prosperity Commonwealth, after the Asian War. And ended up with their economies dominated by Japanese zaibatsu.

That said, they're far better off than they ever were as colonies. And I like pan-Asianism a lot as an ideal - plus Indonesia looks set to displace Japan as the leader of the CPC these days, given their massive economic growth.
 
It's not really plausible, sorry to say. Capitalism inevitably devolves towards that. It's inherent in the interplay between the premises of capitalism and the coming of the industrial era.

Economic power is locked in the hands of the few and they can pass it down to their children through inheritance. Through economies of scale, small artisans' and merchants' businesses are trumped in efficiency by big businesses and many become dependent on big financiers for money. Moreover, class solidarity and separation of educational institutions lead to people hiring only those of the 'right sort'. Thus the result is the penultimate stage of capitalism: an ever-narrowing class of inherited wealth of factory owners and high financiers mixed with the old feudal manners that they ape in so-called 'high society' to differentiate themselves from the plebs, that form of metamorphosed bourgeoisie which the famous theorist James Maxton called the neoplutocracy, dominating an ever-increasing proportion of the economy while the old artisan class is reduced to the same level as the working class. In a representative democracy with a party system, people who do not belong to the aforesaid neoplutocracy are outraged and the neoplutocrats are forced to turn to various regressive social forces such as racism, sexism, nationalism, imperialism, extreme intolerant religiosity and suchlike to prevent themselves from being overwhelmed by popular progressive anger from the proletariat. These forces in turn destabilise the democracy as the polarisation of wealth between the neoplutocrats and the proletariams grows ever-greater. The only possible result, as history has shown time and time again, is a confrontation which leads inevitably either to socialist revolution and the dethronement of the neoplutocracy or to the final, highest and cruellest stage of capitalism: an authoritarian state utterly in thrall to the neoplutocracy and dependent on regressive fears and hatreds and the invocation of war to focus the suppressed ire of the general public on an external enemy for it to find release. In the aftermath of the Great War, in most of the industrialised west—Russia, then Great Britain, then roughly simultaneously France and Germany—the result was the former. The United States of America were the exception in that they saw the rise of the latter, a phenomenon which the subsequent dictatorial regime spread elsewhere in the western hemisphere by military force. Even in Japan, in spite of keeping their emperor as a figurehead monarch for purely religious reasons, the revolution that took place after the catastrophic failure of the overextended old regime's imperialism in China followed an essentially similar model, which of course as others have already noted was then exported elsewhere in East Asia.

In all honesty, I'm surprised anyone is disputing this. This sort of thing is history 101: it's difficult to predict individual events but overall the course of affairs is shaped by long-term forces which, contrary to the thankfully vanquished nationalism of a bygone era, are the same in various peoples, rather than dependent on some uniquely excellent or terrible property of peoples from particular geographical areas. After all, we're all human. I know it's fun to speculate "but what if everything was backwards and somehow capitalism was compatible with lasting democracy?" but please take that sort of thing to the fantasy forum.
 
Well, the US government in exile in Alaska and Hawaii that formed after the civil war is still democratic. Of course, the same center-left party keeps winning all the elections.:rolleyes:
 
Well, the US government in exile in Alaska and Hawaii that formed after the civil war is still democratic. Of course, the same center-left party keeps winning all the elections.:rolleyes:

Helps that the vast majority of Senators and Congresspeople were representing the "occupied states", and thus couldn't be replaced through elections.
 
Helps that the vast majority of Senators and Congresspeople were representing the "occupied states", and thus couldn't be replaced through elections.

That was poor planning on their part. They've been discussing assigning the representatives to districts in Alaska and Hawaii'i, and holding elections there, but obviously that didn't pan out. Perhaps because of the pressure of Zaibutsus, who would lose influence if the senators and congresspeople were ever replaced
 
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