DBWI: Anyone read those World at War books?

[Enigmajones]

OOC: This is from Tosev TL POV

I mean this series is just so cold, seriously, no Race? And besides the point the Reich loses the War, I really just cant take that seriously. But what do you guys think of the series?

 

[The Kiat]

You mean the series where Truman ends up as President?

 

[Polish Eagle]

I find the idea that the use of explosive-metal bombs somehow magically causes the Emperor (of Japan) to surrender to be ludicrous. Hirohito would have fought to the death even harder, like he did IOTL*.

*=OOC: Tosev TL, of course.

 

[Aberblue]

OOC: This is from Tosev TL POV

I mean this series is just so cold, seriously, no Race? And besides the point the Reich loses the War, I really just cant take that seriously. But what do you guys think of the series?

I'm not so sure. Remember that when the Race arrived, Germany was facing Great Britain, the Soviet Union and the USA. Granted, the USA would probably have concentrated on Japan first, but they'd certainly have enough left over to ensure that the British and the Soviets stayed in the War. I agree that the idea of Germany going from dominating most of Europe to total collapse in three years is far-fetched to say the least. Also, the idea of any nation developing an explosive-metal bomb on its own, also mere three years from 1942, is ludicrous. Did this Harry Truman fellow really exist, by the way, or is he just a figment of the author's imagination?

 

[jaybird]

I'm not so sure. Remember that when the Race arrived, Germany was facing Great Britain, the Soviet Union and the USA. Granted, the USA would probably have concentrated on Japan first, but they'd certainly have enough left over to ensure that the British and the Soviets stayed in the War. I agree that the idea of Germany going from dominating most of Europe to total collapse in three years is far-fetched to say the least. Also, the idea of any nation developing an explosive-metal bomb on its own, also mere three years from 1942, is ludicrous. Did this Harry Truman fellow really exist, by the way, or is he just a figment of the author's imagination?

I'd be careful about labeling anything 'ludicrous'. After all, I'm sure that's what Fleetlord Atvar said the first time he was told that "the Tosevites have landcruisers".

 

[metalstar316]

I don't find it ludicrous that someone would develop a nuke by 1945; I find it ludicrous that it would be the Americans. Germany was always on the technological cutting edge. If the Race had not invaded, I believe it would have been Germany developing a nuke first, and they'd have used it on the Soviets.

 

[michaelrbn]

Another "ludicrous" idea: all these countries have explosive-metal bombs and they are never used again after the Japanese surrender.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

First off, I can never understand how you Tosevites can even envision a world where the Race never dispatches a fleet to Tosev-3. Seriously, you'd need a temporal rerouting [1] from over three centuries ago before we decided to send the probe, which would certainly affect history afterwards. You'd probably need a completely different Emperor (turrets down for Him), and since that's cosmically preordained the point is moot.

And don't cite that tired old "isolated planets" argument since the probe's effect on Tosev-3's atmosphere will cause wandering azwacas [2] and the change in policy that caused the probe not to be sent will certainly cause wandering azwacas in the Empire.


1 - TTL's term for POD.

2 - TTL's "butterflies".

 

[Hades]

well, i mean David Icke (), one of the most respected experts on Race Biology turning insane ATL? . That has to be utterly ASB.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'm not so sure. Remember that when the Race arrived, Germany was facing Great Britain, the Soviet Union and the USA. Granted, the USA would probably have concentrated on Japan first, but they'd certainly have enough left over to ensure that the British and the Soviets stayed in the War. I agree that the idea of Germany going from dominating most of Europe to total collapse in three years is far-fetched to say the least. Also, the idea of any nation developing an explosive-metal bomb on its own, also mere three years from 1942, is ludicrous. Did this Harry Truman fellow really exist, by the way, or is he just a figment of the author's imagination?

I agree with Germany's defeat and I'll agree with you that Germany could probably have kept the war going for more then three years if it does everything right but I think all of you don't realize just how fucked the situation for Germany really was before the lizerds arived. It was Germany against the WORLD and it's only allies were Japan who couldn't do much except distract a few Americans, and Italy, the same guys who surrenderd to the lizerds before they even landed , and on top of that they were being led by a lunatic. As for Trumen, yeah he was a real person but I think it was unlikely to became president. But of course FDR was getting fed up with vice president Wallace at the time so it's not impossible.

I don't find it ludicrous that someone would develop a nuke by 1945; I find it ludicrous that it would be the Americans. Germany was always on the technological cutting edge. If the Race had not invaded, I believe it would have been Germany developing a nuke first, and they'd have used it on the Soviets.

Considering Hitler restricted German scientists from researching important aspects of Nuclear Physics just because he called it "jew science" I find this unlikely.

 

[jaybird]

To be fair, the last time around the Germans made a VERY good show of fighting the entire world. Not to mention Frederick the Great and the Prussians - there's a reason the saying "some states have armies, while the Prussian army has a state" existed. Total victory, of course, is impossible, but favorable treaty terms were definitely in Germany's grasp when the Race arrived.

 

[Polish Eagle]

First off, I can never understand how you Tosevites can even envision a world where the Race never dispatches a fleet to Tosev-3. Seriously, you'd need a temporal rerouting [1] from over three centuries ago before we decided to send the probe, which would certainly affect history afterwards. You'd probably need a completely different Emperor (turrets down for Him), and since that's cosmically preordained the point is moot.

And don't cite that tired old "isolated planets" argument since the probe's effect on Tosev-3's atmosphere will cause wandering azwacas [2] and the change in policy that caused the probe not to be sent will certainly cause wandering azwacas in the Empire.


1 - TTL's term for POD.

2 - TTL's "butterflies".

Perhaps the Temporal Rerouting is that the Race discovers a warmer world around a star of similar distance from Home, and dispatches its fleets there. Really, if you had a choice between Tosev 3 and somewhere more Home-like, which would you choose?

 

[Hawkeye]

To be fair, the last time around the Germans made a VERY good show of fighting the entire world.

And they lost!

Not to mention Frederick the Great and the Prussians - there's a reason the saying "some states have armies, while the Prussian army has a state" existed.

And the Prussian army was would have been screwd along with it's state if Elizabeth died a week later.

Total victory, of course, is impossible, but favorable treaty terms were definitely in Germany's grasp when the Race arrived.

The Russians, British, French, and American armies who hated the Nazis guts would have disagred.

 

[jaybird]

Erm...coming very close to a goal once means you have the potential of reaching that goal.

And don't forget, this is May of 1942 we're talking about. The German advance in Russia had stalled over winter, but the RKKA lost 21 divisions in the Crimea, and at Kharkov the Germans forced a 1 to 10 casualty ratio on the Red Army. They still had not launched their PRIMARY summer offensive. Do you honestly think the Soviets could have absorbed another Barbarossa?

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Perhaps the Temporal Rerouting is that the Race discovers a warmer world around a star of similar distance from Home, and dispatches its fleets there. Really, if you had a choice between Tosev 3 and somewhere more Home-like, which would you choose?

Now we are delving into celestial reroutings? *Interrogative Cough* The wandering azwacas will alter the fabric of space/time! *Emphatic Cough*

For the sake of intellectual exercise let's assume azwaca fences. I can assume some mysterious new planet, say at the Qurrhiss system [Proxima Centauri], could steer the fleet elsewhere, however. For the Empire this requires pure speculation as to what races, if any, live at this new planet. Presumably they would not be strange natural oddities like Tosevites with your overactive reproductive systems and reckless technological growth. Maybe Atvar is the third World Conqueror and not the embarrassment of our timeline. Thankfully ginger is probably azwaca'ed.

 

[Swan Station]

I thought those books were pretty hot.

Although, they seemed to be... okay, I'm new here, what's the word for when a timeline pushes one political entity over another? Anyway, they seem to be doing that for the U.S. Also for Earth, too, but since there's no contact with the Race, unlikely there's going to be contact with any other planets either, so you don't have much else to focus on.

It seems amazing that there wouldn't be any significant space travel by the end of the twentieth century, but I guess, without Race technology to aid them...

As for the temporal rerouting, what if some disaster happens to the Conquest Fleet en route, preventing it from arriving near Earth. Years later, when the Colonization Fleet arrives, they find Earth unconquered, with no sign of Atvar anywhere. Lacking the weapons capability to carry out the job themselves, they are forced to go back. If Earth doesn't have advanced space technology at the time, they might not even notice the fleet arriving, or figure it for some minor asteroid.

 

[zoomar]

Now we are delving into celestial reroutings? *Interrogative Cough* The wandering azwacas will alter the fabric of space/time! *Emphatic Cough*

For the sake of intellectual exercise let's assume azwaca fences. I can assume some mysterious new planet, say at the Qurrhiss system [Proxima Centauri], could steer the fleet elsewhere, however. For the Empire this requires pure speculation as to what races, if any, live at this new planet. Presumably they would not be strange natural oddities like Tosevites with your overactive reproductive systems and reckless technological growth. Maybe Atvar is the third World Conqueror and not the embarrassment of our timeline. Thankfully ginger is probably azwaca'ed.

Really now, you need to come to the realization that times have changed. You make us a sterootype of ouselves. If the discovery and attempted conquest of Tosev 3 taught the Empire anything, it should be that we are not at the pinnacle of creation, and that we have no reason to believe that any hypothetical race at Qurrhiss would be any easier to absorb than those infernal big uglies. Perhaps they might be super big uglies with an even less normal view of the way of things should be than those Tosevite monkeys. As I write this, I am watching yet another Tosevite starship land at their huge new "trading center" next to the inland sea. The fact that I, a subject of the Emperor living on Home, am not allowed to enter this infernal colony without a pass issued by the American not-empire, should tell you who is not in charge of the known universe! *Emphatic Cough*

Personally I find the Tosevite World at War novels a fascinating divesrion into an alien speculative reality which paradoxically is about the only one that might have kept the Empire intact - one in which we never visit that accursed place and Tosevites kill only each other, don't care much about space travel, and probaly end up dying off on a polluted planet. But since we are not in the story, who really cares? *Interrogative Cough*.

 

[Sean Mulligan]

I'm not so sure. Remember that when the Race arrived, Germany was facing Great Britain, the Soviet Union and the USA. Granted, the USA would probably have concentrated on Japan first, but they'd certainly have enough left over to ensure that the British and the Soviets stayed in the War. I agree that the idea of Germany going from dominating most of Europe to total collapse in three years is far-fetched to say the least. Also, the idea of any nation developing an explosive-metal bomb on its own, also mere three years from 1942, is ludicrous. Did this Harry Truman fellow really exist, by the way, or is he just a figment of the author's imagination?

By the time of the Races invasion, America and Britain had already agreed on a Germany first policy in fighting the war.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Really now, you need to come to the realization that times have changed. You make us a sterootype of ouselves. If the discovery and attempted conquest of Tosev 3 taught the Empire anything, it should be that we are not at the pinnacle of creation, and that we have no reason to believe that any hypothetical race at Qurrhiss would be any easier to absorb than those infernal big uglies. Perhaps they might be super big uglies with an even less normal view of the way of things should be than those Tosevite monkeys. As I write this, I am watching yet another Tosevite starship land at their huge new "trading center" next to the inland sea. The fact that I, a subject of the Emperor living on Home, am not allowed to enter this infernal colony without a pass issued by the American not-empire, should tell you who is not in charge of the known universe! *Emphatic Cough*

Personally I find the Tosevite World at War novels a fascinating divesrion into an alien speculative reality which paradoxically is about the only one that might have kept the Empire intact - one in which we never visit that accursed place and Tosevites kill only each other, don't care much about space travel, and probaly end up dying off on a polluted planet. But since we are not in the story, who really cares? *Interrogative Cough*.

Citizen, I share not your pessimism. *Emphatic Cough*

By all other evidence (Hallessi, Rabotev, Home) evolution favors the production of seasonal mating, rational minded races. The Tosevites are a genetic fluke, possibly a result of their perverse waterlogged planet. In the long run our systematic patience will win out as the Tosevites' natural inclinations towards chaos will tear their short-lived not-empires apart. *Emphatic Cough*

Assuming, that is, their foul Ginger and the way their corrupt, unnatural ideas pollute our youth do not turn us into Tosevites. *Opens Mouth in Ironic Humor*

OOC: Is this present day ATL, or 2050 at the end of Homeward Bound?

 

[Hawkeye]

Citizen, I share not your pessimism. *Emphatic Cough*

By all other evidence (Hallessi, Rabotev, Home) evolution favors the production of seasonal mating, rational minded races. The Tosevites are a genetic fluke, possibly a result of their perverse waterlogged planet. In the long run our systematic patience will win out as the Tosevites' natural inclinations towards chaos will tear their short-lived not-empires apart. *Emphatic Cough*

Assuming, that is, their foul Ginger and the way their corrupt, unnatural ideas pollute our youth do not turn us into Tosevites. *Opens Mouth in Ironic Humor*

OOC: Is this present day ATL, or 2050 at the end of Homeward Bound?

Said the losers.