DBWI : Alexander reject Darius' Peace Offer after the Battle of Issus

[Yuelang]

I know that this is borderline ASB scenario, but By Zeus, we knew that King Alexander is still a youth that time, and all he need is merely not listening to the advices of his loyal military advisor Parmenion and his tutor Aristotle.

That time, although the Hellenic League Army under the leadership of Alexnder is still full steam with their winning streaks, many of Alexander's more experienced Generals actually felt that their army is already stretched thin, and despite King Alexander's initial hot headed attempt to press the conquest and reject the peace, cooler and more rational heads win the day and King Alexander agreed on a honorable peace in return of all the lands that rightfully belongs to the Greek people, which Emperor Darius complied by giving him Asia Minor and Cyrene, in addition of marriage to his daughter Princess Strateira and treaty of friendship.

Obviously, Alexander pressing the attack would butterfly his later achievement as honored statesman and builder who brought us the foundation of the longest lasting (and still continuing) Nation State in the world, the Hellenic Empire. But in the other hand, there's potential for him to enlarge his empire to greater extent in the east with conquests (rather than the later gradual negotiations and peaceful diplomatic absorption of the Western Hellenic City States attributed to the Charisma of the Old King Alexander).

Your thoughts?

 

[jahenders]

It's hard to imagine him further pressing the attack given the concerns you express, the fact that his army had already accomplished all the primary goals, and his desire to build something lasting.

If he were to have continued on, it seems like one of two things would have happened:
1) Alexander victorius. Alexander keeps pressing Darius and is able to beat him until Darius is little more than a refugee. Alexander's power could potentially stretch across all of the Persia, down into Egypt, and some even speculate as far as India. This would certainly wear his health, and that of his army, down. It would also leave a lot if issues unresolved back home and might even result in a shift in the center of gravity of Alexander's empire to the East. While all this would certainly be impressive, it seems certain that the huge empire thus produced (all conquered almost at once) would be very hard to rule and integrate. It seems that factionalism would be endemic and that it would fall apart as soon as Alexander returns home or dies. I don't see how Alexander could weld all this into something that would outlast him.

2) Alexander pushed back. While Alexander had shown mastery over the Persians, Darius was far from finished. He had vast land and big armies still. If Alexander keeps coming, Darius should be able to trade land for time and pick battlefields of his own choosing. While the Macedonian army was a fine-tuned machine, it could certainly still be beaten. If Darius can win at least one substantive victory over Alexander, that will shake the perception of invincibility, impact Macedonian morale, and give the Persians many opportunities to threaten the Macedonian supply line. Likely, Alexander would have to pull back. He might well have to settle for about what Darius offered in treaty, but have it after years of bloodshed and some defeat, instead of at the pinnacle of victory. Alexander could still potentially 'pull in his horns' and solidify his hold on much of Western Anatolia, but he'd still have a huge, angry Persian Empire to his East. It's, then, quite likely that Darius' successors would be a huge problem for those of Alexander.

Either one of these seems like it might be a net loss compared to the Hellenic Empire / Hellenic Republic.
So much would be lost as you wouldn't have:

• A unified culture in all of Greece and Anatolia
• The conquest of Epirus
• The peaceful incorporation of much of Illyria
• Greek colonies on the heel of Italy
• A strong, solid empire to check the attempted expansions of Rome to the East, forcing them North and West
• The establishment of the Alexandric Dynasty and its supporting Hellenic Republic, which has proved so stable for so long
• A strong empire spanning the Bosphurus and acting as a bulwark against various barbarians from the North and East

 

[Mr. Magi]

It's hard to imagine him further pressing the attack given the concerns you express, the fact that his army had already accomplished all the primary goals, and his desire to build something lasting.

Alexander was prone to needing something to drive him; he became invested in building Asia minor after his old mentor and friend Aristotle gave him ideas. If his mentor wasn't there to advise him, he might have done something rash; he would disagree with Parmenion at times, the best example being the later years where he decided to join and help Syracuse against Qart-Hadast.

If he were to have continued on, it seems like one of two things would have happened:
1) Alexander victorius. Alexander keeps pressing Darius and is able to beat him until Darius is little more than a refugee. Alexander's power could potentially stretch across all of the Persia, down into Egypt, and some even speculate as far as India. This would certainly wear his health, and that of his army, down. It would also leave a lot if issues unresolved back home and might even result in a shift in the center of gravity of Alexander's empire to the East. While all this would certainly be impressive, it seems certain that the huge empire thus produced (all conquered almost at once) would be very hard to rule and integrate. It seems that
factionalism would be endemic and that it would fall apart as soon as Alexander returns home or dies. I don't see how Alexander could weld all this into something that would outlast him.

Optimistic, but I can see Alexander winning as far as the Levant and in a few sections of Mesopotamia. That'd be where the levies of Darius would probably tip the balance, as by then he'd have them ready.

2) Alexander pushed back. While Alexander had shown mastery over the Persians, Darius was far from finished. He had vast land and big armies still. If Alexander keeps coming, Darius should be able to trade land for time and pick battlefields of his own choosing. While the Macedonian army was a fine-tuned machine, it could certainly still be beaten. If Darius can win at least one substantive victory over Alexander, that will shake the perception of invincibility, impact Macedonian morale, and give the Persians many opportunities to threaten the Macedonian supply line. Likely, Alexander would have to pull back. He might well have to settle for about what Darius offered in treaty, but have it after years of bloodshed and some defeat, instead of at the pinnacle of victory. Alexander could still potentially 'pull in his horns' and solidify his hold on much of Western Anatolia, but he'd still have a huge, angry Persian Empire to his East. It's, then, quite likely that Darius' successors would be a huge problem for those of Alexander.

This sounds about right; Darius was a competent leader whose skill lay with defense and counterattack. He was just fighting a tactical genius who was backed with probably one of the best crops of generals in the late classical age. He in particular did very well against Chandragupta Maurya during the latter's rise. The fact he lost Anatolia was annoying, but the province was one of his weaker satrapies, it being full of unruly peoples and of less importance to him than Egypt was.

A unified culture in all of Greece and Anatolia

I believe it took the Macedonians a couple hundred years to do it. Especially in the wilder mountainous regions that were the home of said Pisidians.

The conquest of Epirus

Ah, the revenge against the Molossos; they might have been an issue if Alexander kept east.

The peaceful incorporation of much of Illyria

That's a bit of a crock; the Illyrian tribes regularly caused trouble up into the Migration period.

Greek colonies on the heel of Italy

That were already there. All Alexander did was have Magna Graecia swear fealty though.

A strong, solid empire to check the attempted expansions of Rome to the East, forcing them North and West

For a while; the Romans would eventually take most of Magna Graecia by the 11th century (4th CE) though. The Argead Navy kept them a land power though.

The establishment of the Alexandric Dynasty and its supporting Hellenic Republic, which has proved so stable for so long

500 years is a good deal of time; I think only one of the Chinese dynasties, Later Han I think, matched them.

A strong empire spanning the Bosphurus and acting as a bulwark against various barbarians from the North and East

You mean meatshield because of the wealth of Byzantium and Pellas. If the Argeads didn't keep Anatolia, they'd have been toast, since that was their breadbasket and home of their best troops barring the Agrainians.[/QUOTE]

 

[Yuelang]

Anyway, assuming somehow Alexander did not lost steam and keep the attack, how far he would be able to overrun Darius until he deemed it enough, or will his army get broken due to overstretched

 

[catconqueror]

Anyway, assuming somehow Alexander did not lost steam and keep the attack, how far he would be able to overrun Darius until he deemed it enough, or will his army get broken due to overstretched

Most likely he will conquer the Syria and Egypt, then settle for peace.

If everything goes right, he can push all the way to the Zagros, maybe into India. Well if he stop and consolidate his persian conquest before invading India with new armies. he may be able to push on to East Asia

 

[HIM Dogson]

Most likely he will conquer the Syria and Egypt, then settle for peace.

If everything goes right, he can push all the way to the Zagros, maybe into India. Well if he stop and consolidate his persian conquest before invading India with new armies. he may be able to push on to East Asia

Okay, now that's just Alien Space Monkeys. He'd be lucky to be able to defeat just Darius; his later actions show him to be a temperate ruler who wouldn't have pushed his luck like that. I'd say even if he did go into Persia, it would just be to raid it.

 

[Mr. Magi]

Okay, now that's just Alien Space Monkeys. He'd be lucky to be able to defeat just Darius; his later actions show him to be a temperate ruler who wouldn't have pushed his luck like that. I'd say even if he did go into Persia, it would just be to raid it.

I think you're talking about Phillip II, his dad. Alexander was more of a showman and hot-blooded when he was young, he only started to mellow out when he hit his thirties. He was quite willing to take risks, it's just that he began to realize what he could lose when he looked to his family and especially towards his closest friends and well... "friends".