Crown of the Confessor: the Chronicle of the Anglo-Saxon Kings
- Thread starter TheLordProtector
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Greetings friends! I know I've been MIA for a little bit, but I am still here and planning the next update. Don't worry, I'm working on it!
Love,
TLP
Love,
TLP
Great news, indeed! And FWIW, I enjoyed the last update even though I don't really have any insight to add to the subject given my lack of knowledge on pre-Norman Ireland other than in general terms (something I should probably rectify). I did get a little kick out of the "three-fold death" reference, that is a theme in IE-speaking cultures back then that I didn't notice before.
The threefold death is probably one of my favorite bits in IE culture. Just very poetic!
Anyway, I'll have the update before the end of the week. Sorry it's taken so long; I've been traveling.
Anyway, I'll have the update before the end of the week. Sorry it's taken so long; I've been traveling.
I'll be keeping an eye out for that update by week's end, LP. No rush, just sayin'. Also, is there still a remaining Viking presence in Ireland we aren't hearing about, or are they mostly assimilated by now?
You'll get it, worry not. There's a remaining presence in the ports, but they're being assimilated rather quickly. However, the presence of significant merchant enclaves will ensure that some Norse identity survives in Ireland, just as a minority at least.
Bavarian Raven: Thanks a lot! Always good to have new subscribers.
Excerpt from France, Forgotten Prince of Western Europe
Translated by Savarics de Malleo
Translated by Savarics de Malleo
Robert de Normandie, Prince of Burgundy
"The execution of Duke Robert caused great uproar throughout divided France; though the dispatching of those rebellious few was a common practice in Europe, the killing of kin was a mortal sin, even if they had transgressed. In a notable incident, cries of 'kinslayer' were hurled at the young king Philip as he passed through Auxerre on his way to rendezvous with Robert the Norman. As news of the execution reached the army at Bourges, fundamental cracks began to show in the royalist forces. Disgusted by Philip's actions, Theobald of Blois(1) withdrew his large contingent from the royal army. While he would remain ultimately loyal to the crown, the count would not participate in the rest of the war, leaving royalist forces severely undermanned. Robert de Normandie himself was deeply shaken by Robert's execution, remembering all too well the death of his own family at the hands of Conan of Brittany.
The evidence shows that Robert deliberated for several days on his course of action while the king traveled to the royal encampment. Ultimately, and unfortunately for Philip and France, he decided to leave the service of the king. Traveling east, Robert arrived with a small retinue in Burgundy, where he was hailed by Philician and Robertian forces alike as Duke. Despite his somewhat abrasive personality(2), Robert was able to forge an alliance between both sides due to the earth-shattering effect of Robert Capet's execution. In February of 1076, Robert firmly declared that Burgundy was heretofore an independent state not subservient to the French Crown, due to its unjust, weak rule over its vassals. Philip was stunned by this; Robert had become one of his close advisers and the rock upon which he relied to win royal victories. With the young Norman actively against him, France was almost sure to fall.
Advancing towards Paris itself, Robert captured Troyes in March, while Guillaume IV, Prince of Narbonne(3), was able to defeat Philip's army at the Second Battle of Bourges, crossing the Loire without much difficulty. Philip was being drawn into a noose of his own making. However, the brave, tragic young king was determined to resist. In May, he launched an assault eastwards, surprising the Robertian forces, aimed at again capturing Auxerre from the Duke of Aquitaine, who had only recently arrived at the city with his forces. Caught by surprise, the Aquitainians were unable to properly fortify the city, and Philip was able to force his way in before three days had passed. Vicious street fighting ensued as neither force was able to achieve a significant advantage in the crowded city streets. However, the Duke had been able to send a messenger from the city before Philip had entered, which only reached Prince Guillaume on the twentieth of May, a full five days after the battle had begun. Reaching Auxerre three days later, the prince found the Aquitainians at the breaking point; Philip had nearly exhausted their reserves, and only a small shell of the army remained in fighting condition. The arrival of Prince Guillaume, however--which today is much celebrated in Toulousan national myth--turned the tides against the royalists. Though the king fought with much bravery, his army was surrounded. At last, on the first of June, the king's personal guard finally broke and routed, leading Philip, demoralized and alone, to surrender himself to the Robertians.
The Pact of Auxerre was signed only a few days later; the king was forced to recognize the independence of the Principality of Burgundy, the Duchy (and soon to be kingdom) of Aquitaine, the Principality of Narbonne, and the Principality of Thouars, while the princes themselves agreed not to meddle further in the affairs of the much-reduced France. Philip, at this point, may have believed that his troubles were over, that he would be free to consolidate. Alas, it was not to be so...(4)"
Notes
(1) Also count of Meaux and Troyes. Theobald emerges in historical records as something of a fuddy-duddy. He was quiet, awkward, but also prone to anger, and deeply incompetent in military matters, losing nearly half of his family's ancestral domain in internal French wars over the course of his reign. Nevertheless, in 1075 the count of Blois is an incredibly powerful man in France, mostly by virtue of the large lands which remain tied to his house.
(2) Very much an understatement.
(3) Interesting fact about Guillaume. His mother, Almodis de la Marche, was in fact kidnapped when he was a young boy by the count of Barcelona, who forced her to marry him. He never saw her again.
(4) Foreshadowing!!
* * *
And I give you a divided France. I'm working on a map. I'd really appreciate some help if anyone feels like it.
Imperator Maximilianius
Banned
Maybe you could commission one? I don't know, I've never written a timeline.
Wow, big things going on in France of late! Burgundy looks to be the main "mover and shaker" right now in Gallia, or at least that's my impression of the region post-Auxerre, with Aquitaine not being too much of a slouch in terms of land/men-at-arms/resources/treasury. I do have to ponder what will become of the Ile-de-France itself, that bit of foreshadowing doesn't seem to bode well for them at all.
Well there's always Beedok, or ToixStory if you're willing to wait.
Well there's always Beedok, or ToixStory if you're willing to wait.
Well, Burgundy's still mostly lawless, with ducal control only extending generally as far as the outskirts of large towns and cities. Aquitaine has spent quite a bit of money and men on this war, and won't be a power player for a while. Overall, Narbonne/Toulouse has emerged the best off, though that won't last forever.
I'll probably talk to Beedok. I hear his stuff is good!
It's not that I hate France, it's just that a divided France is quite an interesting geopolitical situation that I wanted to explore. Plus, let's be honest, the way it went OTL with France managing to succeed and even prosper throughout the centuries is actually pretty ASB.
Courtesy of Beedok, I present to you the map! If you're curious, the light blue represents Danish influence; yes, Norway and Viken are independent. Also, that hideous orange down Sicily way? My fault; since he had to use a 1030 basemap, we both forgot to update Italian politics to 1066, so I decided to do it on my own. Not the best decision, but eh. It worked.
I really like this TL and am loving your writing style.
I do have a few comments/questions – they mostly relate back to your opening posts but given that I’ve just discovered this discussion board I hope you don’t mind.
I agree Harold would have eventually removed the atheling Edgar. Afterall, Harold was the chief suspect in the untimely death of Edgar’s father, Edward the Exile in 1057. And the difference of opinion between Harold and Gyrth is entirely plausible. I have always thought Harold and Leofwine were close and the most alike – Harold and Leofwine went a viking together during the Godwines exile in 1051/2.
I am somewhat confused as to the Anglo-Dansk who feature prominently in your TL. Who are they? Where are they located? And how did the House of Leofric become their leaders? Historically the House of Godwine were the leaders of the Anglo-Danish faction at the Confessor’s court.
Of the ring of earls:
Good to see Oswulf take Northumbria. But given he was de facto if not de jure under-earl from 1065 (ie essentially the Scottish march leaving Yorkshire to Morcar) what was his role in the civil war?
And his cousin Waltheof (of House Siward), earl of Huntingdon and Northampton – what role did he play in the civil war? And did the civil war remove his need to carry on the bloodfeud with the House of Carl?
And Morcar. I find it interesting you kept him as earl when it is most likely that Harold removed him after Stamford Bridge leaving Marlsweyn (who was Sheriff of Lincolnshire) to run things.
Church matters: You have foreshadowed resolving things with the Pope but what of the English clerics? What becomes of Stigand who is not a bona-fide Archbishop (of Canterbury)? And Aldred, Archbishop of York (and the man who crowned Harold) – what was his role in the civil war?
There are a number of other historical personages I’m curious about but probably the most pressing is a certain former thegn from Lincolnshire. Will he be returning from exile?
Keep up the excellent work.
I do have a few comments/questions – they mostly relate back to your opening posts but given that I’ve just discovered this discussion board I hope you don’t mind.
I agree Harold would have eventually removed the atheling Edgar. Afterall, Harold was the chief suspect in the untimely death of Edgar’s father, Edward the Exile in 1057. And the difference of opinion between Harold and Gyrth is entirely plausible. I have always thought Harold and Leofwine were close and the most alike – Harold and Leofwine went a viking together during the Godwines exile in 1051/2.
I am somewhat confused as to the Anglo-Dansk who feature prominently in your TL. Who are they? Where are they located? And how did the House of Leofric become their leaders? Historically the House of Godwine were the leaders of the Anglo-Danish faction at the Confessor’s court.
Of the ring of earls:
Good to see Oswulf take Northumbria. But given he was de facto if not de jure under-earl from 1065 (ie essentially the Scottish march leaving Yorkshire to Morcar) what was his role in the civil war?
And his cousin Waltheof (of House Siward), earl of Huntingdon and Northampton – what role did he play in the civil war? And did the civil war remove his need to carry on the bloodfeud with the House of Carl?
And Morcar. I find it interesting you kept him as earl when it is most likely that Harold removed him after Stamford Bridge leaving Marlsweyn (who was Sheriff of Lincolnshire) to run things.
Church matters: You have foreshadowed resolving things with the Pope but what of the English clerics? What becomes of Stigand who is not a bona-fide Archbishop (of Canterbury)? And Aldred, Archbishop of York (and the man who crowned Harold) – what was his role in the civil war?
There are a number of other historical personages I’m curious about but probably the most pressing is a certain former thegn from Lincolnshire. Will he be returning from exile?
Keep up the excellent work.
Very nice map, too bad about Italy/Sicily (hey, I'm not map genius myself so I'm not exactly much of a judge of quality ). And while I'm intellectually aware of the Danelaw's historical reach, it's still a bit surprising to see its extent upon rendering in visual form! After the recent war to bring the Anglo-Danes under Winchester's thumb, would you say there's been any success in rebuilding and hopefully carrying on as before, or are there still issues in repairing the deep hurting done to the land? I only ask since we've now seen what's become of France (and seen how Aquitaine and Narbonne/Toulouse has taken the lead in the region).
). And while I'm intellectually aware of the Danelaw's historical reach, it's still a bit surprising to see its extent upon rendering in visual form! After the recent war to bring the Anglo-Danes under Winchester's thumb, would you say there's been any success in rebuilding and hopefully carrying on as before, or are there still issues in repairing the deep hurting done to the land? I only ask since we've now seen what's become of France (and seen how Aquitaine and Narbonne/Toulouse has taken the lead in the region).[FONT="]In my enthusiasm for your TL I missed a couple of errors.
I do realise that such errors are the fault of the c.1290 scribe of The Chronicle of the Saxon Kings and not the faithful transcriber of this wonderful history.
The first is from the OP:
The second is from post #38:
I do realise that such errors are the fault of the c.1290 scribe of The Chronicle of the Saxon Kings and not the faithful transcriber of this wonderful history.
The first is from the OP:
[/FONT][FONT="] Or was Hastings fought on Oct 1 ITTL and not Oct 14 as per OTL?
The second is from post #38:
Edwin is the older brother – that is why he inherited the earldom of Mercia on the death of their father (Aelfgar) in 1062. Morcar wanting to be an earl conveniently positioned himself to take advantage of the revolt against Tostig in 1065.[/FONT]
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Certainly, carry on.
Yes, that's why I chose Gyrth. According to what scant reports there are, Harold and Leofwine seem to be the closest out of the brothers.
The Anglo-Dansk are the ethnic group which constitutes the greater part of the people in the north of England, being something of a fusion between Anglo-Saxon culture and Danish, with a smattering of Scots. While, yes, the House of Godwine often represented the Anglo-Danish faction, Harold's focus on the south alienated the House of Leofric and many Angledansk thanes in the north, which eventually led to the civil war shown.
Luckily for Oswulf, he's a smart cookie, and kept his head down during the war, essentially avoiding openly supporting either side. As the result of the war became clear, however, he did provide token forces to Harold's men, and has thusly been rewarded.
He fought fairly zealously for the king, what with firstly many of his northern rivals having joined with the House of Leofric, and secondly there being no reason for him to rebel. Seeing as how the targets of that bloodfeud are mostly dead by this point, yes, the bloodfeud's essentially over.
I've never heard that before, do you have a source? (it's not that I don't believe you, I'm just curious)
I'll be covering church matters in a few updates, but let me tell you right now that Aldred staunchly supported Harold, despite the suspicious death of the Atheling. Aldred has spent most of Harold's reign so far encouraging the development of better relations with the Pope, which have fallen on deaf ears for the moment. For his part, Stigand is being championed by the House of Godwine in defiance of Papal wishes, mostly as a result of Papal support for William.
Well, in between fighting bears and rescuing Cornish princesses, good ol' Hereweard really doesn't have the time to return to England, even if he wanted to! I might make mention of his adventures, fictional and otherwise, throughout Europe though.
Very nice map, too bad about Italy/Sicily (hey, I'm not map genius myself so I'm not exactly much of a judge of quality
If you're interested, I'll be discussing the new state of affairs in Italy next update, and it should have some nice, juicy bits. Yes, the Danelaw was huge! It was surprising to me when I first read it. As for rebuilding, Oswulf has had some success in resettling the devastated rural areas and returning refugees to their homes, but the cultural scars will last much longer. Meanwhile, some lawlessness continues to be a problem. However, don't worry, England will not go the way of France.
[FONT="]In my enthusiasm for your TL I missed a couple of errors.
I do realise that such errors are the fault of the c.1290 scribe of The Chronicle of the Saxon Kings and not the faithful transcriber of this wonderful history.
Err, yes, yes, it's his fault, not mine!
That's a mistake of mine, I meant to type a 4 and just forgot.
I'll fix it, thank you. This is actually intentional, showing the inaccuracy of the chroniclers in a more subtle way. Seriously, I promise, this is intentional.