Creole Language based on Danish

[Hvalrossen]

The European Colonization of the Caribbean saw the emergence of various creole languages. Among which are Jamaican Patois and Haitian Creole are the most numerous. These creole languages originate in the contact of people from multiple linguistic backgrounds, who at first evolved a pidgin language between themselves, and later evolved into a creole language.

Denmark-Norway did set up a small colony in what is today the US Virgin Isles. However, a creole language based on Danish never developed. One reason is that Danish speakers were never in a majority in the Caribbean holdings. With the European descended population of St John and St Thomas being of mostly Dutch descent. While the European descended population of St Croix being of mostly British and Irish descent. Negerhollands, a Dutch based creole language was spoken at St John and St Thomas for a while. It was later abandoned in favor of English. The population of St Croix always spoke a English based creole language.

Why were not Danish speakers more willing or able to emigrate to the Caribbean? Would the enslaved population of Danish colonies develop a Danish based creole language even if most European settlers where of Danish speaking? Additionally, is it more likely that the Danish speaking European settlers would adopt another language than for a Danish creole to emerge? Perhaps abandoning Danish in favor of Dutch, French or English?

 

[tex mex]

@Hvalrossen
A better idea is to have Danish India survive for a much longer period of time.
Danish had a colony in Tranquebar and Serampore in India. They send Danish indentured male servants to settle at these two colonies, and marry the local Indian women. Their offspring become the majority population in Tranquebar, and a Danish-Tamil creole develops.

 

[Hvalrossen]

@Hvalrossen
A better idea is to have Danish India survive for a much longer period of time.
Danish had a colony in Tranquebar and Serampore in India. They send Danish indentured male servants to settle at these two colonies, and marry the local Indian women. Their offspring become the majority population in Tranquebar, and a Danish-Tamil creole develops.

I think the idea that indentured servants would be sent to India is unrealistic. It is simply too uneconomic. If the Danish East India Company, or the Danish State had a wish of settling subjects in India then it would rather encourage sailors to settle, along with some specialists (missionaries, administrators, etc).
Edit: added more text

 

[Jürgen]

Norwegian (both versions) and Faroese?

 

[Jürgen]

The European Colonization of the Caribbean saw the emergence of various creole languages. Among which are Jamaican Patois and Haitian Creole are the most numerous. These creole languages originate in the contact of people from multiple linguistic backgrounds, who at first evolved a pidgin language between themselves, and later evolved into a creole language.

Denmark-Norway did set up a small colony in what is today the US Virgin Isles. However, a creole language based on Danish never developed. One reason is that Danish speakers were never in a majority in the Caribbean holdings. With the European descended population of St John and St Thomas being of mostly Dutch descent. While the European descended population of St Croix being of mostly British and Irish descent. Negerhollands, a Dutch based creole language was spoken at St John and St Thomas for a while. It was later abandoned in favor of English. The population of St Croix always spoke a English based creole language.

Why were not Danish speakers more willing or able to emigrate to the Caribbean? Would the enslaved population of Danish colonies develop a Danish based creole language even if most European settlers where of Danish speaking? Additionally, is it more likely that the Danish speaking European settlers would adopt another language than for a Danish creole to emerge? Perhaps abandoning Danish in favor of Dutch, French or English?

I expect that if Denmark kept the Danish West Indies, we would see an influx of people after WWII, but they would speak standard Danish. We would likely see a Danish-Creole English pidgin arise among the English speakers to communicate with the Danish tourists.

Of course, we also have the example of Petuh, which is a Danish-German mixed language spoken in the old days in Flensburg.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Norwegian (both versions) and Faroese?

Danish influence on Norwegian and Faroese is more a case of language erosion than the creation of a new creole language. Much of the foreign influence on Norwegian is also from Low German. Although the Low German influence sometimes can be conflated with Danish influence. The Danish and Low German influence have significantly changed the lexical content of the Norwegian language. For example the Old Norwegian words for wife is "kjerring", but the modern one is for the most part "kona" or "kone". While "kjerring" has not disappeared from the language, it's lexical meaning has changed. Nowadays it is used more as a negative slur, more or less equivalent to "bitch" in English.

 

[tex mex]

I think the idea that indentured servants would be sent to India is unrealistic. It is simply too uneconomic. If the Danish East India Company, or the Danish State had a wish of settling subjects in India then it would rather encourage sailors to settle, along with some specialists (missionaries, administrators, etc).
Edit: added more text

I was thinking something like this could happen:

Korlai Portuguese Creole - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Portuguese soldiers settled at this fort had sex with the local Indian women, and the result is a village speaking an Indo-Portuguese creole language.

 

[Hvalrossen]

I expect that if Denmark kept the Danish West Indies, we would see an influx of people after WWII, but they would speak standard Danish. We would likely see a Danish-Creole English pidgin arise among the English speakers to communicate with the Danish tourists.

This scenario seems very likely in the event that Denmark did not sell the islands to USA.

Of course, we also have the example of Petuh, which is a Danish-German mixed language spoken in the old days in Flensburg.

Do you know if Petuh was spoken by all Flensburg residents? Regardless of ethnic background, or if it was only used between Danish and German speakers? If the latter is true it would be similar to Russenorsk, a pidgin language used in trade between Norwegians and Russian Pomors in the area that is called Nordkalotten in Norwegian.

 

[Jürgen]

This scenario seems very likely in the event that Denmark did not sell the islands to USA.

Do you know if Petuh was spoken by all Flensburg residents? Regardless of ethnic background, or if it was only used between Danish and German speakers? If the latter is true it would be similar to Russenorsk, a pidgin language used in trade between Norwegians and Russian Pomors in the area that is called Nordkalotten in Norwegian.

It was used by people who was fully bilingual in both languages.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Back to first post.

Do you have an idea for how the European settler population in the Caribbean colonies could be mainly Danish or Norwegian in origin? Could the reason lie in the lack of developed capital markets in Denmark-Norway?

 

[Uff Da the optimist]

Norwegian?

 

[Hvalrossen]

I was thinking something like this could happen:

Korlai Portuguese Creole - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Portuguese soldiers settled at this fort had sex with the local Indian women, and the result is a village speaking an Indo-Portuguese creole language.

If the Danish East India Company had more possessions, and if these holdings are able to support potential settlers then it is possible that some will settle down. Though I imagine that it does depend on the Danish East India Company expanding it's influence beyond trade settlements, factories and trading posts. If the Danish East India Company is able to administrate an area directly, then it would be able to appoint people to positions of power, and also hand over properties. The question is how would, or how could the Danish East India Company expand it's footprint and control? The objective of the East India Company was to earn money. Settling subjects from Europe in India was never an objective. Therefore it has to be a side effect of a profit seeking enterprise. Which is also necessary if the settlers are to have any livelihood.

Are there any obvious things that the Danish East India Company could have done to have become more influential, and more profitable?

 

[Jürgen]

Do you have an idea for how the European settler population in the Caribbean colonies could be mainly Danish or Norwegian in origin? Could the reason lie in the lack of developed capital markets in Denmark-Norway?

They couldn’t. The first “settlers” in the Danish West Indies was Danish criminals but they died fast. The most likely place for a Danish creole language to arise would be on the Gold Coast of Denmark kept it. In that case a Danish creole could arise as a local Lingua Franca.

 

[Jürgen]

If the Danish East India Company had more possessions, and if these holdings are able to support potential settlers then it is possible that some will settle down. Though I imagine that it does depend on the Danish East India Company expanding it's influence beyond trade settlements, factories and trading posts. If the Danish East India Company is able to administrate an area directly, then it would be able to appoint people to positions of power, and also hand over properties. The question is how would, or how could the Danish East India Company expand it's footprint and control? The objective of the East India Company was to earn money. Settling subjects from Europe in India was never an objective. Therefore it has to be a side effect of a profit seeking enterprise. Which is also necessary if the settlers are to have any livelihood.

Are there any obvious things that the Danish East India Company could have done to have become more influential, and more profitable?

Settling Australia instead of the Nicobar Islands. Denmark didn’t have the economy to fight for with the Indians or other European power over control of India, so the Danish presence was always on the grace of the local dominant power.

 

[JohnBull]

A bigger Danish Gold Coast, confirmed during the Partition of Africa or maybe a Danish settlement in South Africa (Natal). "Afrikansk", maybe?

 

[Hvalrossen]

They couldn’t. The first “settlers” in the Danish West Indies was Danish criminals but they died fast. The most likely place for a Danish creole language to arise would be on the Gold Coast of Denmark kept it. In that case a Danish creole could arise as a local Lingua Franca.

Interesting! I would have thought that a Danish creole language would be more likely to arise in the Caribbean. Since the Caribbean is already home to a huge number of creole languages as a result of it's history of settlement.

Also i found an article on the deportation of criminals, and unwanted elements to the Caribbean.
https://www.aftenposten.no/historie...fattigfolk-og-letferdige-quindfolk-som-slaver (in Norwegian)

How would a Danish creole language emerge in Ghana?

 

[Hvalrossen]

A bigger Danish Gold Coast, confirmed during the Partition of Africa or maybe a Danish settlement in South Africa (Natal). "Afrikansk", maybe?

How could the territorial reach of the Danish Gold Coast become more extensive, and how could it's influence become stronger where it already existed?

 

[JohnBull]

How could the territorial reach of the Danish Gold Coast become more extensive, and how could it's influence become stronger where it already existed?

They should somehow have survived to the 1870’s when the imperialist fever reached Europe, they could have expanded their beachhead as the other European powers.

 

[Byzantion]

There could be a Inuit based Danish creole language in Greenland.

 

[Hvalrossen]

They should somehow have survived to the 1870’s when the imperialist fever reached Europe, they could have expanded their beachhead as the other European powers.

There would need to be a demographic and socio-economic basis facilitating the spread of the creole variant. If not a new creole language based on Danish might replace the old creole language.

Is it plausible that this creole language could be spoken by over 100 thousand speakers by 1900, or become the majority language/lingua franca of the coast and parts of inland rivers?