Could this form of government come to be?

Tetsu

I put this in Chat because it just didn't feel quite right to put in either of the AH Discussion forums. It can be moved if need be.

I was messing with a map, trying to inspire myself to maybe write something. I drew a massive Austro-Hungarian Empire [one that stretched into the Caucasus], and I started thinking of how such an empire, that was overstretched in OTL, could possibly survive and prosper with so many more ethnic groups added to it, ones that despise each other and anyone that rules over them, such as Chechnyans, et cetera. I thought that they had to have some sort of enemy to hold them together.

So I thought up a type of government that is the polar opposite to such fascist governments as Nazi Germany, but still incredibly strict and fascist in nature. I can't really decide on a suitable name for it, but I gave this nation the sinister-sounding name of the Combine [yes, like from Half-Life 2].

This nation is the feirce opponent of nationalism and rascism. Propaganda spouts from every rooftop that all people are equal and genetically the same, and that ethnicity and nationality are illusions propagated by the enemies of the State. It is highly illegal to refer to oneself as French, Belgian, Zulu, whatever. To the Combine, you are a person like everyone else and nothing else.

"The delusion of ethnicity promotes disunity."

Comments? Anyone think this is interesting at all?
 

Mayhem

tetsu-katana said:
This nation is the feirce opponent of nationalism and rascism. Propaganda spouts from every rooftop that all people are equal and genetically the same, and that ethnicity and nationality are illusions propagated by the enemies of the State. It is highly illegal to refer to oneself as French, Belgian, Zulu, whatever. To the Combine, you are a person like everyone else and nothing else.

"The delusion of ethnicity promotes disunity."
Click to expand...

Funky :D Uninationalism? Commonism? Equalitarianism?

Not only does it match with elements of my personal philosophy, but it's also nasty!

So, when you say it's like Fascism, does that mean that economics is all centrally-planned and that dissidence is stamped on by 20,000ton hammers?
 

Tetsu

Mayhem said:
Funky :D Uninationalism? Commonism? Equalitarianism?

Not only does it match with elements of my personal philosophy, but it's also nasty!

So, when you say it's like Fascism, does that mean that economics is all centrally-planned and that dissidence is stamped on by 20,000ton hammers?
Click to expand...

Well, elements of the economy are state-controlled, such as agriculture, pharmaceuticals, et cetera. There is a fair amount of free enterprise, however. It's a pretty even split. However, it's very definately a police state, and bureaus such as the Department of Unification moniter everything for signs of "disunity", which is everything from calling something French [by the way, the Combine is centered in what is called France and Germany in OTL, although it extends from Spain to Lithuania and even down into Africa, and across the ocean to South America] to violent nationalistic terror groups.

Literally, if someone is caught associating something with an ethnic group, they can be incarcerated and sent for re-education. Usually the punishment is not so harsh, but it can happen.

One thing that kind of sets it apart- political groups and parties are allowed, of a sort. There are parties in the Combine that call for changes in government, like more free enterprise, or more state control, whatever.

Actually, it's more akin to the Draka, in a sense. There were political parties in the Domination, but no matter what, it was HIGHLY illegal to contest the slave system, and it's the same in the Combine. Any "disunity", or ethnic awareness, is very illegal.
 

carlton_bach

Mayhem said:
So, when you say it's like Fascism, does that mean that economics is all centrally-planned and that dissidence is stamped on by 20,000ton hammers?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be more like Stalinism? Most fascist governments had a remarkable degree of respect for the free market in the oddest places, and many tolerated dissent as long as it was kept private.

I could see a system like this set up, but I doubt it would last long. One of the 'Neo-European' countries could have started it earlier, but it would also be possible in SE Asia, or by now in Europe, given the right conditions. A high-minded experiment in social engineering, designed to create a new identity out of a mix of old ones. We've had a milder (and Communist) version of that in Yugoslavia (and look how well that's turned out).

A possible future for the EU under the pressure of serious wars? "Rifleman Schmidt, Rifleman Pogorszki, Rifleman Yilderim, you are EUROPEANS! And when we meet the Turks and Russkies you will walk right over them! 2 millennia of heritage will not be denied!"
 

Tetsu

Hmmm, I just had another thought. If the Combine is so against any and all notions of race, I wonder what they would call all the nations around them... I created the Combine as a force that could hold the Austrian Empire together. I imagine that the Austrians would use the forced erasing of ethnic lines by the Combine to strengthen their empire- "Look what the evil Combine is doing! You are different, and you should be proud of your ethnicity, because the wonderful Austrian Empire embraces all ethnic groups! Support the Kaiser- if not for him, you'd live in a land where you couldn't be Serbian/Ukrainian/Hungarian."

I guess the Combine would be forced to recognize the notion of Japanese, Austrian, Mexican... hmm, perhaps instead, the Combine could claim to be the highest level of humanity, rising above ethnicity instead of supporting a theory that ethnicity doesn't exist at all.

This is getting complicated. :p By the way, I really don't have anything definitive, these are just my scattered thoughts. ;)
 

Romulus Augustulus

So you'd have an all-pervasive secret police, and with advanced enough technology, mass-surveillance?

Hmm...basically a boot stomping on a human face forever...
 

Flocculencio

Donor
carlton_bach said:
I could see a system like this set up, but I doubt it would last long. One of the 'Neo-European' countries could have started it earlier, but it would also be possible in SE Asia, or by now in Europe, given the right conditions. A high-minded experiment in social engineering, designed to create a new identity out of a mix of old ones. We've had a milder (and Communist) version of that in Yugoslavia (and look how well that's turned out).
Click to expand...

It sounds a bit like a more extreme version of the Singaporean form of government: "Do what you will as long as you turn a profit, don't contradict the government and don't start any fights."
 

Nicole

tetsu-katana said:
Hmmm, I just had another thought. If the Combine is so against any and all notions of race, I wonder what they would call all the nations around them... I created the Combine as a force that could hold the Austrian Empire together. I imagine that the Austrians would use the forced erasing of ethnic lines by the Combine to strengthen their empire- "Look what the evil Combine is doing! You are different, and you should be proud of your ethnicity, because the wonderful Austrian Empire embraces all ethnic groups! Support the Kaiser- if not for him, you'd live in a land where you couldn't be Serbian/Ukrainian/Hungarian."
Click to expand...
Now that's odd... two multiethnic empires, one that promotes ethnic division (and says how great it is for allowing it) and one that's firmly against it (and says how superior it is to ban it)...
 

Max Sinister

Banned
It might be a good idea to make a multi-ethnic empire work better because people don't waste their energy with intern squabbles. Genghis did some similar things.

But what ideology do they have otherwise? Do they want to conquer the world? Defeat Communism / Nazism / another ideology? Do they have religious aims?

And BTW, fascism didn't run the economy - there were some state-run businesses, the expropriation of the Jews and enemies of the nazis, but most of the property remained in private hands.
 

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy

Banned
Max Sinister said:
And BTW, fascism didn't run the economy - there were some state-run businesses, the expropriation of the Jews and enemies of the nazis, but most of the property remained in private hands.
Click to expand...

Yeah, tell that to a libertarian (end of cheap shot and hijacking attempt).

Now back on topic. I suspect they'd also be against religion, first of all because it's divisive, second of all because it's conservative. Or they'll try to impose the same religion on everybody, but I see this as less likely. Basically, the easiest way to conceive this regime is to take political corectness to one possible extreme.
 

Diamond

Banned
What about language? Language also is a very devisive thing; the problem is compounded here by having the Combine centered in western Europe, where there's quite a few disparate languages. Does the Combine try to create an artificial language? The task would seem to be impossible - how do you make millions upon millions of people re-learn millennia of culture and language?

One possible way around it might be the gradual elimination of the family unit. After the Combine is established for a decade or two, the first National Creches are set up, where all children are born and raised. The learn Combine Basic (or whatever the new language would be called) from the cradle, as well as learning that their first allegiance is to the state, not to a family.
 

carlton_bach

An artificial language wouldn't actually be necessary. You simply produce all new TV programing in English (or any other one language, but realistically English is the way to go) and subtitle it for Combine consumption. Afdter a generation, people realise it's increasingly cheaper to buy the book/DVD/game in English than wait for the more expensive subtitled or translated version. It also eases travel and cross-border communication (after all, you're all non-nationals, so there's no reason not to move elsewhere if the jobs look better). After another generation with the first trilingual couples raising their kids (he speaks Finnish, she speaks Dutch, they talk to each other in English), the language barrier is just a quaint tradition.
 

Diamond

Banned
I guess it depends on when the POD is. If, as Tetsu wanted, you've got as one of the power blocs the A-H Empire, then the POD would need to be probably in the late 19th century. We need more info on the Combine - when is it created, and why? Did the Central Powers win WWI, but did Germany still go down the drain economically? Maybe the 'commonalistic' creed existed instead of communism, and took root in Germany and France?
 
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