Could the Knights Templar have formed a country like the Teutonic Order?

Deleted member 93645

Could the Knights Templar have conquered territory and formed a state-like entity, like the Teutonic Knights did? If so, what region would be most likely?

Perhaps if they tried to conquer part of Anatolia to secure the overland route to Jerusalem?
 

Thoresby

Cyprus is the most obvious but they could also have acquired one of the more northerly Crusader realms, either Tripoli or Antioch.
 

Thoresby

darthfanta said:
Taking over a Christian principality would have significant backlashes.
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Depends on the context. The Teutonic Order acquired a lot of it's land from grants including Pomerania though that admittedly did cause the Order serious problems with the Poles. If a King of Jerusalem decided to grant the Templars Antioch or Tripoli due to the current ruler dying in battle without an obvious heir there would be grumbling from other claimants but with the backing of both the Church and the KoJ the grumblers probably couldn't do much about it.
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Thoresby said:
Depends on the context. The Teutonic Order acquired a lot of it's land from grants including Pomerania though that admittedly did cause the Order serious problems with the Poles. If a King of Jerusalem decided to grant the Templars Antioch or Tripoli due to the current ruler dying in battle without an obvious heir there would be grumbling from other claimants but with the backing of both the Church and the KoJ the grumblers probably couldn't do much about it.
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Several problems,the KoJ doesn't have much authority in Antioch.Antioch was in fact a vassal of the ERE.As for Tripoli,it's more or less the Hospitaller's turf in terms of religious orders because that's where Krak des Chevaliers' located.
 
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Thoresby

darthfanta said:
Several problems,the KoJ doesn't have much authority in Antioch.Antioch was in fact a vassal of the ERE.As for Tripoli,it's more or less the Hospitaller's turf in terms of because that's where Krak des Chevaliers' located.
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Well the Templars had Chastel Blanc right next to the Krak but yes I agree the Hospitaller's had a larger footprint in Tripoli and were more likely to be the recipients of a grant, still the Templars were more powerful in Jerusalem so if it's a decision originating in Jerusalem they might receive the grant. As for Antioch while it was a vassal of the ERE that's not an effective bar, look at the Ordensstaat. You could have the Templars take the place of the German Order, Jerusalem that of the HRE and the Poland's role be taken by the ERE.
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Thoresby said:
Well the Templars had Chastel Blanc right next to the Krak but yes I agree the Hospitaller's had a larger footprint in Tripoli and were more likely to be the recipients of a grant, still the Templars were more powerful in Jerusalem so if it's a decision originating in Jerusalem they might receive the grant. As for Antioch while it was a vassal of the ERE that's not an effective bar, look at the Ordensstaat. You could have the Templars take the place of the German Order, Jerusalem that of the HRE and the Poland's role be taken by the ERE.
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Except the KoJ isn't even half of the ERE's power level,heavily reliant on aid from the ERE and was even forced to recognize the ERE as it's overlord at one point in it's history.
 
The Professor

The Professor

Thoresby said:
That's more Sicily's patch. See the Kingdom of Africa, if they wanted to hand Tunis over to a Order it probably wouldn't be the very Frankish Templars.
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Since it's lost by the time the Templars are significant enough to aim for land could they not be included as vassals of the King of Sicily (Trinacria or Naples) to help take it back?
 

Minty_Fresh

Banned
They could have like the Hospitallers been able to have a small territory and rule it. Malta, Cyprus, maybe even Crete or Tripoli (not long term, though).

If they scale back their Europe wide ambitions and network, and maybe buddy up with the King of France and exist as a quasi-French project, they could have a chance at some North African empire in addition to their island stronghold. But anything in the Levant is impossible after the Black Plague in my view.
 

Thoresby

darthfanta said:
Except the KoJ isn't even half of the ERE's power level,heavily reliant on aid from the ERE and was even forced to recognize the ERE as it's overlord at one point in it's history.
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I'm not saying it's easy and I agree the comparison isn't exact but I think the principal applies. Anyway from the Byzantine perspective crusader Antioch was always a buffer state, it's not hard to imagine that they would prefer it to be an effective buffer state which in turn could imply the Templars.
 
English Nationalist

English Nationalist

I agree Cyprus is the best bet, Antioch could also be apart of their territory but it all comes down to if they can hold it or not.
Either way money is certainly no object for the order, Templar colonies in the New World, now that's a thought....
 

Strategos' Risk

Alligator said:
That would have gone to the French king.
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Not if the French king was the Cathar.

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