I ask because my knowledge of their histories, separate and shared, is pretty lacking. I'm not sure what exactly lead to them being allies (the threat of Germany or Russia?) but i was looking at maps and could easily imagine a heavily fortified English Channel. Perhaps and England that is completely isolated from the Continent, and has tried to foster an "Atlantic Community" to balance the power.
Could England and France still be enemies in 2014?
- Thread starter matashowski
- Start date
hey we hail from the same place
And if a mod wants to move this to pre 1900, be my guest
And if a mod wants to move this to pre 1900, be my guest
I haven't read it yet (it's on my rather long and ever growing reading list), but perhaps this book may help you understand Anglo/Franco relations in the modern age; I hear good reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/That-Sweet-En...+the+British+from+the+Sun+King+to+the+Present
http://www.amazon.com/That-Sweet-En...+the+British+from+the+Sun+King+to+the+Present
Could something be possible in a Central Power victory scenario? Maybe Franco-British relations are damaged in the resulting peace treaty? Germany extracts heavily from France but is unable to do so from Britain (for obvious reasons), France takes the path of revanchism or nationalism and hatred or distrust of "Perfidious Albion" is part of this. Keeping those feeling till 2014 though...
Grey Wolf
Donor
Turn the Niger Crisis or Fashoda, or both, into a war and the 20th century is going to pan out massively differently than OTL.
Even if we posit a short war, we also have the Anglo-Russian emnity and after a short shooting war with France, Britain is going to be much more anti-Russian in 1904 and if events go similar and Russian battleships shoot up British fishing boats we could well see Britain joining Japan against Russia.
Given that realpolitik would probably have meant a rapprochment with Germany after the short war with France, then an Anglo-German alliance ending up fighting a Russo-French one in 1905 would not be too much of a push.
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Even if we posit a short war, we also have the Anglo-Russian emnity and after a short shooting war with France, Britain is going to be much more anti-Russian in 1904 and if events go similar and Russian battleships shoot up British fishing boats we could well see Britain joining Japan against Russia.
Given that realpolitik would probably have meant a rapprochment with Germany after the short war with France, then an Anglo-German alliance ending up fighting a Russo-French one in 1905 would not be too much of a push.
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
If the Fashoda crisis or something similar has a more lasting effect upon public conscience leading into the 20th Century maybe the French Republic could invade the German Reich through Belgium as the leading offensive of atl Western Front. The British Empire then joins forces with the Central Powers leading to an earlier defeat of France. I believe Italy will not enter the war due to the Empire. The Russian Empire will have after faster defeat and without the necessity of Stalin for the Germans, Russia gains a governmental system similar to that of the Westminster System.
France will be made to suffer with the French realm losing various areas to both Germany and Britain. Italy may gain land in the south east of France but this would depend on how the war pans out in my opinion. It would be safe to assume that if the French nation can rebuild itself after the war and the Great Depression which will likely still happen. Anywhere between 1940's and the present would be the most likely period for any military conflict however without any form of radicalism inside the French Government these acts will be done mostly by political extremists and insurgents to some degree.
Depending on the direct territorial outcome of the Great War would more or less determine the level of hatred and rivalry between the channel. In the present day of this timeline their would probably not be any direct conflict between the two governments however most factors of any hatred would be by the two nations populous. It would also be a possibility that organisations inside both realms would fund and support separatists movements inside the other.
This is all off the top of my head however this could be an intriguing timeline if one was to develop this idea further. What ever the divergence, our worlds be certainly be very different with such a continued rivalry which shaped so much of history.
France will be made to suffer with the French realm losing various areas to both Germany and Britain. Italy may gain land in the south east of France but this would depend on how the war pans out in my opinion. It would be safe to assume that if the French nation can rebuild itself after the war and the Great Depression which will likely still happen. Anywhere between 1940's and the present would be the most likely period for any military conflict however without any form of radicalism inside the French Government these acts will be done mostly by political extremists and insurgents to some degree.
Depending on the direct territorial outcome of the Great War would more or less determine the level of hatred and rivalry between the channel. In the present day of this timeline their would probably not be any direct conflict between the two governments however most factors of any hatred would be by the two nations populous. It would also be a possibility that organisations inside both realms would fund and support separatists movements inside the other.
This is all off the top of my head however this could be an intriguing timeline if one was to develop this idea further. What ever the divergence, our worlds be certainly be very different with such a continued rivalry which shaped so much of history.