Could Britain have won the Southern Theater of American Revolutionary War?
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Faeelin
Banned
Dunmore offered freedom to a limited number of slaves (those who would serve in the army) and only if their masters were rebels. he did this because he had no other options; British authority in Virginia had completely collapsed. The British relied on freed blacks because they had no one else to turn to.
Which means, of course, that a viable approach to the British South is to treat the Americans like the Irish, and use black slaves against them.
Which means, of course, that a viable approach to the British South is to treat the Americans like the Irish, and use black slaves against them.
TFSmith121
Banned
Except ... how does THAT go over in the British West
Except ... how does THAT go over in the British West Indies, India, Ceylon, or any of the other economic engines where a white British planter class did quite well financially from plantation-based slave agriculture?
My guess is not real well...
Best,
Except ... how does THAT go over in the British West Indies, India, Ceylon, or any of the other economic engines where a white British planter class did quite well financially from plantation-based slave agriculture?
My guess is not real well...
Best,
Faeelin
Banned
Ceylon wasn't seized until the Napoleonic Wars, so I don't think Britain will care what anyone there thinks.
The West Indies would be concerned, but black soldiers did have a role there; the British raised West Indian regiments of blacks in OTL during hte Revolution and Napoleonic Wars...
TFSmith121
Banned
Good point on Ceylon;
Good point on Ceylon; you got me
(lots of territories changing hands in that period...)
I'm just thinking that the "go roman on the white southerners with freedmen recruited by the King's Army" is unlikely to go over well in certain parts of the empire, which are wealthy enough to have influence in Parliament.
Best,
Ceylon wasn't seized until the Napoleonic Wars, so I don't think Britain will care what anyone there thinks.
The West Indies would be concerned, but black soldiers did have a role there; the British raised West Indian regiments of blacks in OTL during hte Revolution and Napoleonic Wars...
Good point on Ceylon; you got me
(lots of territories changing hands in that period...)
I'm just thinking that the "go roman on the white southerners with freedmen recruited by the King's Army" is unlikely to go over well in certain parts of the empire, which are wealthy enough to have influence in Parliament.
Best,
Faeelin
Banned
Good point on Ceylon; you got me
(lots of territories changing hands in that period...)
I'm just thinking that the "go roman on the white southerners with freedmen recruited by the King's Army" is unlikely to go over well in certain parts of the empire, which are wealthy enough to have influence in Parliament.
Best,
It's complicated; race hadn't gelled completely in the British Empire at this time, which is why you had reactionary Tory lickspittle criticizing the Americans for having "the loudest cries of freedom come from slaveowners."
TFSmith121
Banned
"Complicated"? Sure...
But I'm thinking the sugar planters in the BWI probably have enough pull in Parliament to quash anything along the lines of liberated ex-slaves holding down white tobacco planters ... I mean, the British Army was executing people by the carload as late as 1865 in Morant Bay for the crime of (essentially) not being European...
Best,
But I'm thinking the sugar planters in the BWI probably have enough pull in Parliament to quash anything along the lines of liberated ex-slaves holding down white tobacco planters ... I mean, the British Army was executing people by the carload as late as 1865 in Morant Bay for the crime of (essentially) not being European...
Best,
Faeelin
Banned
But we also know the Brits deployed free slaves in OTL during the Southern campaign, and raised black troops in the West Indies to replace white troops sent to America. So proposing an extension of that doesn't seem crazy.
TFSmith121
Banned
No, but my reaction was to the
No, but my reaction was to the British-officered, freedmen-enlisted military units go roman concept suggested by this statement: "Which means, of course, that a viable approach to the British South is to treat the Americans like the Irish, and use black slaves against them."
Just seems unlikely, given the racial dynamics in play in Bermuda, Jamaica, Trinidad, and across the British West Indies (much less elsewhere in the Empire)...
Granted, the color line was not as high in the 1770s as it was a century later, but still...
Best,
No, but my reaction was to the British-officered, freedmen-enlisted military units go roman concept suggested by this statement: "Which means, of course, that a viable approach to the British South is to treat the Americans like the Irish, and use black slaves against them."
Just seems unlikely, given the racial dynamics in play in Bermuda, Jamaica, Trinidad, and across the British West Indies (much less elsewhere in the Empire)...
Granted, the color line was not as high in the 1770s as it was a century later, but still...
Best,
Could the French involvement in the American Revolution be avoided by a more inept French Ruler during the 7 Year War?
France almost bankrupted itself in supporting the Americans. If the French had been made even weaker by the war, would they still have supported the revolution?
France almost bankrupted itself in supporting the Americans. If the French had been made even weaker by the war, would they still have supported the revolution?
Because most of the French army was on the mainland during the 7 Year War, and Britain's only major ally on the Continental was Prussia, it would require Prussia beating both Russia and Austria before they could turn their attention toward France. My only guess is that Peter III of Russia would have to ascend to the throne much sooner than 1762 and make peace with Prussia. Austria might fall in line. After that, maybe Frederick could be convinced to attack France, but it is hard to say.
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