Could American Conquer Korea?

It took the Qing 10 years to force Korea become its vassal. And this was after millions died and were kidnapped back to China. Protectorates also don't occur just because you invade the capital. Righteous Armies, as always, will rise up and fight against foreign invaders.

Does America, like the Qing, have the logistics and willingness to bring a hundred thousand-strong army, destroy the entire countryside, corner the King into a fortress and basically starve him out into submission?

This is irrelevant. To begin with, the Qing invaded Joseon in 1627 and 1637-8, both of which only lasted for 2-3 months, and the campaigns were conducted specifically in order to prevent Joseon from aiding the Ming. While Korea was undergoing severe political turmoil at the time due to the Imjin War (destabilizing the military), the opposite was true for both cases by 1871, as Korea had experienced well over 200 years of relative peace (with the exception of a minor French campaign in 1866), causing the military to deteriorate over time. However, the peninsula was able to remain independent because the European powers were disinterested in Joseon, which I will go into more detail below.

No, they did not. The point stands: Taizong of Qing took two months, not a decade, to receive the surrender of the Korean king. The Manchu invasions were fundamentally different from the Japanese invasions of the 1590s in this aspect.

See above. Additionally, the Manchus (Jurchen before 1635) were able to force Joseon to pay tribute because of the devastating aftermath of the Imjin War, which forced the country to invest resources into fortifications in the south, as well as extensive rebuilding efforts after the invasion, temporarily diluting the main focus on the north, which had been continuously maintained for over a millennia with troops of several hundred thousand across various fortifications. The situation was further exacerbated after a palace coup in 1623, in addition to an uprising ten months later by a general who had made the coup possible in the first place, causing the monarch to temporarily abandon the capital. While the rebellion was put down within a month, some rebels fled to Manchuria, then persuaded and aided the Jurchen in invading Korea in 1627. While Joseon attempted to make preparations for another potential invasion, the military and fortifications generally continued to remain in disarray, allowing the Qing to quickly seize the initiative in 1637.

Joseon had also been making preparations for a potential confrontation soon after Gwanghaegun came to power in 1608, in addition to utilizing diplomatic policies to stall a conflict, along with consolidating the military both before and after the second invasion. As a result, Korea would have been much more prepared for an invasion had the Imjin War not occurred, Gwanghaegun not been overthrown, or the Jurchen/Manchus had invaded over a decade later, which could have then allowed the Ming to regain the initiative.

Also, for reference, the Manchu ruler at the time should be referred to as Hong Taiji (Huang Taiji), instead of "Taizong of Qing." This is because Shunzhi, his son, was the first in his dynasty to consolidate rule over China, while Qing rulers starting with Shunzhi (except for Puyi) are traditionally referred to by their era names, instead of their temple ones.

I suspect that Britain wouldn't have minded much, bearing in mind that we had no real interests in (and relatively few interests very close to) Korea at the time, and might even have offered to support the American claim in exchange for American support in some other (current or future) dispute. When was the Alaska/BC border finally fixed at its RL line?

Yes, but the European powers were collectively disinterested in Korea for over three centuries, despite a continuous interest in China and Japan during the same time period (although with some limitations), which was mostly due to the fact that Korea was not located near any major trading routes. I've also discussed this extensively elsewhere.

However, had the US indicated an active interest in Korea in an alternate scenario, it would have been far more likely for other European countries to do so long beforehand, given that they had been in a much better position to do so for centuries. Such divergences would require a PoD to occur at least by the 17th century or so in order for the peninsula to become more attractive to European trade, which would also predate the foundation of the United States. In fact, any significant foreign military involvement by the 1860s-70s (as a result of centuries of divergences) might actually incentivize Korea to pursue industrialization, or at the very least militarization, essentially contradicting the OP.

It's also telling that IOTL, Japan never directly fought the Korean army, but rather influenced the country gradually over several decades before it was eventually annexed.
 
Could there be a Berlin Conference like scenario where the Great Powers divvy-up influence in the area, and Korea ends up as protectorate of the US, as a neutral power, to avoid greater conflict between Russia/China/Japan?
 
@democracy101 (can't quote)
I wasn't arguing that the US could have conquered Korea just that Qing did not take 10 years to make Korea a vassal.

Also, Hong Taiji declared himself an emperor on April 11 1636 (lunar calendar) so I will call him Taizong of Qing. Of course he was only known as Taizong after his death, just like Sejong, but my (Korean) history book calls him Taizong of Qing after April 11.
 
@democracy101 (can't quote)
I wasn't arguing that the US could have conquered Korea just that Qing did not take 10 years to make Korea a vassal.

Yes, but you compared the Manchu invasions with those of Japan (both are technically irrelevant to the OP), and I was pointing out why they were fundamentally different.

That's all.

Also, Hong Taiji declared himself an emperor on April 11 1636 (lunar calendar) so I will call him Taizong of Qing. Of course he was only known as Taizong after his death, just like Sejong, but my (Korean) history book calls him Taizong of Qing after April 11.

Yes, but my point was that none of the Qing emperors have been (traditionally) referred to by their temple (or even posthumous) names, as the vast majority were referred to by their era names. For example, we wouldn't refer to "Kangxi" as "Shengzu" or "Qianlong" as "Gaozong" because neither are standard (or accepted) practice. While it isn't technically wrong to refer to Hong Taiji as "Taizong," it just sounds odd, and he should be referred to as "Tiancong" or "Chongde" if we're going to avoid use of his personal name.
 

scholar

Banned
Yes, but my point was that none of the Qing emperors have been (traditionally) referred to by their temple (or even posthumous) names, as the vast majority were referred to by their era names. For example, we wouldn't refer to "Kangxi" as "Shengzu" or "Qianlong" as "Gaozong" because neither are standard (or accepted) practice. While it isn't technically wrong to refer to Hong Taiji as "Taizong," it just sounds odd, and he should be referred to as "Tiancong" or "Chongde" if we're going to avoid use of his personal name.
Qingdi is what all emperors were called during life after their ascension.
 
Qingdi is what all emperors were called during life after their ascension.

That too, given that they were Qing emperors (清帝), but they need to be distinguished at some point (especially after death), and contemporary sources refer to their era names.
 
Could there be a Berlin Conference like scenario where the Great Powers divvy-up influence in the area, and Korea ends up as protectorate of the US, as a neutral power, to avoid greater conflict between Russia/China/Japan?


Yes, I think that's a viable scenario. It is plausible that Korea could become an American protectorate. It would make more sense than actually annexing Korea to the U.S. But that doesn't mean you can't see American settlements in Korea. If that happened, where would they be?
 
Hawaii wasn't even US territory in 1871....:rolleyes:

Shooting up pirates (from the US/Western point of view; the Koreans presumably saw themselves as patriots) is one thing; organizing an expeditionary force of any size, all of six years after Appomattox, for a conflct 8,000 miles around the world seems a bit much, don't you think?

Best,

This thread was inspired by a page from a diary of an ancestor of mine, a sailor. He believed that American should "go out to the Oreeint (sic) and plant the American flag." But where would we do it? China, obviously is not an option; it's too big. The Japanese would surely have fought any foreign power to the death who tried to conquer them. So, that leaves Korea.
 
This thread was inspired by a page from a diary of an ancestor of mine, a sailor. He believed that American should "go out to the Oreeint (sic) and plant the American flag." But where would we do it? China, obviously is not an option; it's too big. The Japanese would surely have fought any foreign power to the death who tried to conquer them. So, that leaves Korea.

The Koreans also would have fought any foreign power to the death (well not literally, neither they nor the Japanese are suicidal, but still). Like the Japanese, they would probably win too. By the way, there are other places in the Orient where America could look: Southeast Asia and Indonesia, for example. OTL, America did have an abortive colony in Indonesia (Borneo, I believe) that went nowhere.

But going back to Korea, America simply does not have the power to do so in the time frame that you specify.
 
Except they didn't They were made a protectorate and later annexed directly in OTL. There was nothing resembling a death struggle.
That was different, not being a full-on invasion, and it was, very very importantly, a gradual process taking more than a generation. Also, Gojong was not the Daewongun, and there were still the Donghak Peasant Movement and the Righteous Armies.
 
Top