Confederate victory in ACW: Impact on ideology?

[LikeYorihisa]

So I know there are various ACW-related threads, but I would like to focus more impact that Confederate victory gives on the ideological aspects.
For the question of how CSA won, let's assume "order 191 isn't lost" pod for the sake of scenario.

For starters, these are my two cents.
1, Republicanism in general discredited: Considering that large republican nation has now split in two, maybe many people came to believe that large republican nation with diverse population would be easier to break up than other types of government. Especially the republicanism in a sense of "government of the people, by the people, for the people".
2, Different impact on Marxism: Marx was supportive of Union, but as far as I searched, he thought Union would win if only they implemented revolutionary abolitionist ideology. I don't know what kind of ideology Marx is referring to, but with Confederates surviving, such radical revolutionary ideology might be more acceptable to abolitionist in TTL (TL 191's socialist in Union but more radical version maybe?)
3, Herrenvolk democracy or such ideology more accepted? : Victorious Confederacy would somewhat legitimize their white supremacy idea while some extent having democratic election. This might lead to an belief that maybe more states accept the idea of specific ethnic group can subjugate a "lesser" group, while having some kind of democracy among specific group.

What would be other ideological effects that victorious Confederacy bring?

 

[the Imperium of Canada]

For starters with the break away slaver state to the south, abolitionism as an "ideology" in the United States continues obviously.

 

[Comte de Geneve]

The Confederate Revolution was not about ideology but slavery, which is not an ideology. A Republic dividing into 2 Republics does not discredit Republicanism. Marxism is Marxism regardless of the outcome of the ACW. The CSA was not a Herrenvolk ideology but a breakaway movement to maintain the social-economic control of a planter elite. I think that to speak of ideologies in the context of the ACW is to try and transplant 20th Century political philosophy into the mid 19th Century.

 

[dcharles]

I might point to my own work here, as it deals very directly with many of the questions you've raised. Link in sig.

 

[the Imperium of Canada]

I'd wonder how the continuation of abolitionist societies and the like in the North would intersect with the vergining labor movement and socialism in the United States.

 

[CarlosTheAltHistoryGuy]

1, Republicanism in general discredited: Considering that large republican nation has now split in two, maybe many people came to believe that large republican nation with diverse population would be easier to break up than other types of government. Especially the republicanism in a sense of "government of the people, by the people, for the people".

No, not really. Republicanism had already been implemented in Latin America, so I don't see it falling that much

2, Different impact on Marxism: Marx was supportive of Union, but as far as I searched, he thought Union would win if only they implemented revolutionary abolitionist ideology. I don't know what kind of ideology Marx is referring to, but with Confederates surviving, such radical revolutionary ideology might be more acceptable to abolitionist in TTL (TL 191's socialist in Union but more radical version maybe?)

The GOP... Vanguard of American Marxism? /j

3, Herrenvolk democracy or such ideology more accepted? : Victorious Confederacy would somewhat legitimize their white supremacy idea while some extent having democratic election. This might lead to an belief that maybe more states accept the idea of specific ethnic group can subjugate a "lesser" group, while having some kind of democracy among specific group.

Probably, I'll admit I haven't seen concept used much in AH and I think it'd be interesting (not that I support the ideology, it's more of a fascination kind of thing)

 

[the Imperium of Canada]

The GOP... Vanguard of American Marxism? /j

You joke, but I had some vague idea for a "redux" of Turtledove's Southern Victory series in vain of EBR's Drakia TL that would have a focus on still having the same general "beats" of the original story but how far less parallelisms and butterfly killing.

Would have an earlier PoD of Marx immigrating to America in the 1850s, getting involved in the abolitionist Movement, and at some point sparking up a correspondence with Frederick Douglass and later embittered ex-president Abraham Lincoln.

 

[LikeYorihisa]

For discrediting republicanism, I haven't explained enough. Correct me if I am wrong, but I assumed Latin American and other republican states around this time was mostly ruled by caudillos or turn into monarchs (like in Mexico). So, USA was at that time more or less can be said as a only functioning democratic republic, with citizens of various backgrounds. (Was there were other functioning republic with various ethnic groups at this time?)
When USA split in two, I thought that many people will question whether democratic republic with multi ethnic groups were sustainable in the long run. So, when starting revolution, more states would likely form under the banner of a strongman, single-party state, monolithic ethno-democracy or maybe self-claiming monarchs (like Riza Pahlavi) than OTL. Basically, I assumed US-style democratic republic wouldn't be welcomed in TTL revolutionaries.

 

[LikeYorihisa]

You joke, but I had some vague idea for a "redux" of Turtledove's Southern Victory series in vain of EBR's Drakia TL that would have a focus on still having the same general "beats" of the original story but how far less parallelisms and butterfly killing.

Would have an earlier PoD of Marx immigrating to America in the 1850s, getting involved in the abolitionist Movement, and at some point sparking up a correspondence with Frederick Douglass and later embittered ex-president Abraham Lincoln.

The GOP... Vanguard of American Marxism? /j

GOP becoming vanguard for revolution is quite interesting, though it would have to overcome
1, Vanguard party had only begun with Lenin, not Marx himself. So there should be a guy advocating for taking over political party is necessary for revolution. Maybe more militant De Leon could work?
2, Such moves wouldn't be welcomed by business people like Rockefeller and others. They'll try to fight back and retain control of the party. Might be easier to take over Radical Democracy Party or similar kind of splinter-faction from GOP.
Though I have to admit, GOP, the party who fought vigorously against communism OTL becoming hotbed for revolution is a very ironic and attracting idea itself.