Comrade Cripps: A Very British Dictator
- Thread starter Comisario
- Start date
I'm looking forward to seeing when the life and career of Cripps changes from OTL and how this TL develops. A very good biography of him is The Cripps Version: The Life of Sir Stafford Cripps by Peter Clarke, London: Penguin, 2002. Clarke was the first biographer of Cripps who had unrestricted access to his own papers.
In OTL in the late 1920s Cripps was a highly paid barrister. I assume he was in this TL. In OTL he joined the Labour Party shortly after the 1929 general election and was adopted as Labour candidate for Woolwich West.
In OTL in the late 1920s Cripps was a highly paid barrister. I assume he was in this TL. In OTL he joined the Labour Party shortly after the 1929 general election and was adopted as Labour candidate for Woolwich West.
I have that biography! I got it a little while ago- I'm sure I mentioned it on the "What are you currently reading...?" thread. To be honest, it's one of the best biographies I've read in a long time (though that isn't saying much, as the last one I read was Morrissey's, haha).
Everything you have said so far will definitely show up. You've made some very good assumptions. The part about Woolwich West will become very important- especially as it was a fringe seat and the MP became a "civil commissioner" during the General Strike of OTL.
TFSmith121
Banned
He was a patent attorney, wasn't he?
He was a patent attorney, wasn't he? Suggests some ablities and inclinations toward technology and technology-based solutions for Britian's economic problems...
Plus one has to be open both to precedent and new ideas to succeed as such.
Best,
He was a patent attorney, wasn't he? Suggests some ablities and inclinations toward technology and technology-based solutions for Britian's economic problems...
Plus one has to be open both to precedent and new ideas to succeed as such.
Best,
Cheers
I think you can guess where the Crippsverse is going just by considering that fact
Ah yeah- I've seen that photo before. I might use it after the fifth update- giving a picture overview of every five chapters. Cheers for that
Hmmm...
Any way we can get Cripps vs Bloods here?
If I knew a way, I would do it.
Sounds like a good ASB TL though!
"WI: Posh Christian socialist versus a violent American street gang?"
Looks very unteresting, I'm hooked.
BTW, will this butterfly away 'Murder She Wrote'? One can but hope.
BTW, will this butterfly away 'Murder She Wrote'? One can but hope.
TFSmith121
Banned
FWIW, more than a few British army regiments
FWIW, more than a few British army regiments have had something to do with "blood" as their nicknames for a long time...
Best,
FWIW, more than a few British army regiments have had something to do with "blood" as their nicknames for a long time...
Best,
He was an expert in patent law, one of the best in his field (and the best paid).
He was very technologically and scientifically minded- he studied chemistry as well and had inherited an interest in railways from his father. As a supremely intelligent organiser and moderniser, his premiership holds great promise for the worlds of science and technology in Britain. An earlier "White Heat", one could say...
Good to hear!
Angela Lansbury won't go anywhere near acting, from what I've been thinking.
TFSmith121
Banned
Okay, interesting - is he a "Little Englander" or a
Okay, interesting - is he a "Little Englander" or a "federal commonwealth type" or something else, in your conception?
Best,
Okay, interesting - is he a "Little Englander" or a "federal commonwealth type" or something else, in your conception?
Best,
He may have been a "Little Englander" type in his younger, more conservative days. However, the ardent Marxism that he subscribed to following the Great Depression was quite orthodox (in a Marxist sense) in its ideas about the dual enemies of nationalism and imperialism. To Cripps, fascism was to be as despised as British imperialism. I think the quote I used on the first post indicated that well.
So I would say "neither". He's an internationalist, is our Cripps.
TFSmith121
Banned
Okay - should make for some interesting allies and opponents,
Okay - should make for some interesting allies and opponents, within Britain and without...
Best,
He may have been a "Little Englander" type in his younger, more conservative days. However, the ardent Marxism that he subscribed to following the Great Depression was quite orthodox (in a Marxist sense) in its ideas about the dual enemies of nationalism and imperialism. To Cripps, fascism was to be as despised as British imperialism. I think the quote I used on the first post indicated that well.
So I would say "neither". He's an internationalist, is our Cripps.
Okay - should make for some interesting allies and opponents, within Britain and without...
Best,
Chapter 3
(Taken from "The People's Voice: Accounts of the 1926 General Strike" by Natalie Albrighton, Ebury Press 2007)
Sidney Rees. Dockworker. Beckton, London.
"We were shocked, me and the lads. I mean... Bramley was dead and we weren't even a week in. That... that was it. It looked like the strike would be over. We were all standing around the docks with our hats in our hands. Not a word from the union about it- we read it in the 'Daily Mail'. That was a bloody rag, I'll tell you. Load of cobblers, all that "King and Country" rubbish [1].
Still, I remember all the unease. Since six in the morning, we'd stood about with no orders. Wouldn't work... not us. We weren't fighting, neither. But, we were a bit apprehensive-like when the police came along. They all paraded, the coppers, like they were some marching band. They had special constables with them, too. They came up to us and told us to clear off! I couldn't believe it when they started all the punching and kicking. Us strikers, me and my mates, weren't up for much fighting. Of course, they beat the living crap out of us. My mate, Bill, was shuffled off into a police car. A couple other fellas were dragged away too, but must of us ran in the end. We couldn't do nothing to them, really.
I remember I spent the next three days on the streets. It was too unsafe to go back home and see the missus. When the knew you- and they knew me pretty well- then all of us strikers knew we had to make ourselves scarce. No going home, no popping in to see the kids, no messages, no nothing. The police kept taps on the boys they knew were on strike. Down our way, the mothers and wives had visits every other day. They searched about for us, hoping our women would grass. But they weren't snitches, especially not my Enid."
(Taken from "A Decade of Strife: British Labour 1919-1929" by Michael Stern, Verso Books 2009)
In an atmosphere of rising militancy and government repression, there seemed little more that could endanger the TUC in the face of strike-breaking fascist militias and their vicious attacks on strikers. However, fate conspired to destroy the confidence of the Trade Union Congress. It was Fred Bramley's death on the evening of the 5th May, following a terrible seizure and most probably caused by stress, that proved to be the first loss of life during the General Strike. It was a staggering blow to the TUC: their first casualty was the man that they had stood by for so long against the Conservative government, and his leadership was sorely needed in this crisis most of all. From every newspaper and radio channel, the people of Britain learned of Fred Bramley's untimely passing. The labour movement, however shaken by the news, had no time to mourn. The General Strike carried on, despite the rumours that the General Council of the TUC would try to compromise in the interim between Bramley's death and the leadership election for his successor [2]. The "lefts" still dominated with their uncompromising rhetoric, and so any rumours of an armistice were swiftly put to rest.
The ensuing leadership crisis was, as to be expected, a decisive battle of ideology. From the Right, Walter Citrine tried to present himself as Fred Bramley's natural successor and as a man of rationality (in contrast to the manic lack of lucidity of the radical socialists in the labour movement, as he believed). From the Left, Albert Purcell was Citrine's only serious challenger after A.J. Cook turned down the nomination. Cook's reasons were vague at the time, giving only hints of why he might not wish to take over as General Secretary of the TUC. In fact, the reasons he gave were not his reasons at all. Recently discovered correspondence between Cook and the Chairman of the National Minority Movement (the Communist Party's front within the trade union movement), Tom Mann, has revealed that Cook was explicitly ordered to stand down from the leadership contest for fear that he might split the left-wing of the TUC [3]. With Cook and his Miners Federation behind Purcell, there was little to stop the President of the IFTU (Amsterdam International). Citrine and Ernest Bevin, who was now following Citrine's anti-strike line, both raised concerns over the power centralised in Purcell's hands [4]. As President of the International Federation of Trade Unions, as the British labour movement's chief representative on the world stage, and as General Secretary of the TUC, Purcell was the most powerful trade unionist in Britain. But, what disturbed the right-wing of the TUC most were his Communist Party connections and his support from within the National Minority Movement [5].
(Taken from "The People's Voice: Accounts of the 1926 General Strike" by Natalie Albrighton, Ebury Press 2007)
Richard McAllen. Grocer. Northfield, Birmingham.
"It was amazing to hear him speak. I'd never been so... astounded by a speech before. You could see it in his eyes- he felt every word he spoke with a burning passion. I'll never forget when Oswald Mosley spoke at the Town Hall [6].
He spoke like a socialist prophet, really. "Solidarity!" he would shout, and everybody leapt up and cheered. There were plenty of Reds in that crowd, and he commanded them with his words. I wouldn't say I was one of them, but I could well have been by the look of me. I bet I looked hypnotised by the man. However, I'm not sure the fascists much cared whether I was a Red or not when they came bursting in. That was horrible when they made their way through the crowd with their batons, clobbering everyone in sight. I saw knives too, but I don't think they used them- I didn't see anybody being stabbed, but I might be wrong. Mosley was defiant in the face of the fascists- he continued to speak, not perturbed by the uniformed thugs at the back of the hall. He pointed, I remember, and shouted, "Look comrades! There are your enemies! We can stand together, comrades!"
I heard him, as clear as anything, and I... I fought. I wasn't sure who I punched, but I punched someone. Mosley did that for me, he gave me courage- he was a real inspiration that day. But, the fascists flooded in and nobody could get out. I got dragged off into a corner with some poor sods who looked half-dead, all smattered with blood... God, it was awful. Mosley got knocked about too, I remember. He tried getting out but the fascists got him and knocked him on the head. Went down like a ragdoll. Poor man."
(Taken from "The People's Voice: Accounts of the 1926 General Strike" by Natalie Albrighton, Ebury Press 2007)
Sidney Rees. Dockworker. Beckton, London.
"We were shocked, me and the lads. I mean... Bramley was dead and we weren't even a week in. That... that was it. It looked like the strike would be over. We were all standing around the docks with our hats in our hands. Not a word from the union about it- we read it in the 'Daily Mail'. That was a bloody rag, I'll tell you. Load of cobblers, all that "King and Country" rubbish [1].
Still, I remember all the unease. Since six in the morning, we'd stood about with no orders. Wouldn't work... not us. We weren't fighting, neither. But, we were a bit apprehensive-like when the police came along. They all paraded, the coppers, like they were some marching band. They had special constables with them, too. They came up to us and told us to clear off! I couldn't believe it when they started all the punching and kicking. Us strikers, me and my mates, weren't up for much fighting. Of course, they beat the living crap out of us. My mate, Bill, was shuffled off into a police car. A couple other fellas were dragged away too, but must of us ran in the end. We couldn't do nothing to them, really.
I remember I spent the next three days on the streets. It was too unsafe to go back home and see the missus. When the knew you- and they knew me pretty well- then all of us strikers knew we had to make ourselves scarce. No going home, no popping in to see the kids, no messages, no nothing. The police kept taps on the boys they knew were on strike. Down our way, the mothers and wives had visits every other day. They searched about for us, hoping our women would grass. But they weren't snitches, especially not my Enid."
(Taken from "A Decade of Strife: British Labour 1919-1929" by Michael Stern, Verso Books 2009)
In an atmosphere of rising militancy and government repression, there seemed little more that could endanger the TUC in the face of strike-breaking fascist militias and their vicious attacks on strikers. However, fate conspired to destroy the confidence of the Trade Union Congress. It was Fred Bramley's death on the evening of the 5th May, following a terrible seizure and most probably caused by stress, that proved to be the first loss of life during the General Strike. It was a staggering blow to the TUC: their first casualty was the man that they had stood by for so long against the Conservative government, and his leadership was sorely needed in this crisis most of all. From every newspaper and radio channel, the people of Britain learned of Fred Bramley's untimely passing. The labour movement, however shaken by the news, had no time to mourn. The General Strike carried on, despite the rumours that the General Council of the TUC would try to compromise in the interim between Bramley's death and the leadership election for his successor [2]. The "lefts" still dominated with their uncompromising rhetoric, and so any rumours of an armistice were swiftly put to rest.
The ensuing leadership crisis was, as to be expected, a decisive battle of ideology. From the Right, Walter Citrine tried to present himself as Fred Bramley's natural successor and as a man of rationality (in contrast to the manic lack of lucidity of the radical socialists in the labour movement, as he believed). From the Left, Albert Purcell was Citrine's only serious challenger after A.J. Cook turned down the nomination. Cook's reasons were vague at the time, giving only hints of why he might not wish to take over as General Secretary of the TUC. In fact, the reasons he gave were not his reasons at all. Recently discovered correspondence between Cook and the Chairman of the National Minority Movement (the Communist Party's front within the trade union movement), Tom Mann, has revealed that Cook was explicitly ordered to stand down from the leadership contest for fear that he might split the left-wing of the TUC [3]. With Cook and his Miners Federation behind Purcell, there was little to stop the President of the IFTU (Amsterdam International). Citrine and Ernest Bevin, who was now following Citrine's anti-strike line, both raised concerns over the power centralised in Purcell's hands [4]. As President of the International Federation of Trade Unions, as the British labour movement's chief representative on the world stage, and as General Secretary of the TUC, Purcell was the most powerful trade unionist in Britain. But, what disturbed the right-wing of the TUC most were his Communist Party connections and his support from within the National Minority Movement [5].
(Taken from "The People's Voice: Accounts of the 1926 General Strike" by Natalie Albrighton, Ebury Press 2007)
Richard McAllen. Grocer. Northfield, Birmingham.
"It was amazing to hear him speak. I'd never been so... astounded by a speech before. You could see it in his eyes- he felt every word he spoke with a burning passion. I'll never forget when Oswald Mosley spoke at the Town Hall [6].
He spoke like a socialist prophet, really. "Solidarity!" he would shout, and everybody leapt up and cheered. There were plenty of Reds in that crowd, and he commanded them with his words. I wouldn't say I was one of them, but I could well have been by the look of me. I bet I looked hypnotised by the man. However, I'm not sure the fascists much cared whether I was a Red or not when they came bursting in. That was horrible when they made their way through the crowd with their batons, clobbering everyone in sight. I saw knives too, but I don't think they used them- I didn't see anybody being stabbed, but I might be wrong. Mosley was defiant in the face of the fascists- he continued to speak, not perturbed by the uniformed thugs at the back of the hall. He pointed, I remember, and shouted, "Look comrades! There are your enemies! We can stand together, comrades!"
I heard him, as clear as anything, and I... I fought. I wasn't sure who I punched, but I punched someone. Mosley did that for me, he gave me courage- he was a real inspiration that day. But, the fascists flooded in and nobody could get out. I got dragged off into a corner with some poor sods who looked half-dead, all smattered with blood... God, it was awful. Mosley got knocked about too, I remember. He tried getting out but the fascists got him and knocked him on the head. Went down like a ragdoll. Poor man."
***
[1] The "King and Country" rubbish to which our good friend refers to was a headline in the Daily Mail that wasn't printed during the General Strike in OTL. But, ITTL, the worry about exacerbating the situation and forcing the TUC out of negotiations isn't there.
[2] The idea that the TUC was looking to compromise anyway was true in OTL- this was mostly due to Citrine being General Secretary in our world.
[3] The General Secretary of the NMM would have done it, but he (Harry Pollitt) was in prison at this time.
[4] Citrine's fear of Purcell's power is a sort of reversal from OTL- in our world, Citrine held all of the same (and more) positions concurrently and wielded more influence in the Labour Party than Purcell ever could.
[5] Purcell was a leading trade unionist in the Communist Party during its inception, but turned to the Labour Party for electoral success. ITTL, it's much the same- except that his communist past is more cause for concern.
[6] Thank you to Maponus for inspiring this entire section of the update!
[2] The idea that the TUC was looking to compromise anyway was true in OTL- this was mostly due to Citrine being General Secretary in our world.
[3] The General Secretary of the NMM would have done it, but he (Harry Pollitt) was in prison at this time.
[4] Citrine's fear of Purcell's power is a sort of reversal from OTL- in our world, Citrine held all of the same (and more) positions concurrently and wielded more influence in the Labour Party than Purcell ever could.
[5] Purcell was a leading trade unionist in the Communist Party during its inception, but turned to the Labour Party for electoral success. ITTL, it's much the same- except that his communist past is more cause for concern.
[6] Thank you to Maponus for inspiring this entire section of the update!
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I know nothing about Cripps. But if I were to attempt to change a pacifist into... something distinctly different... I would do it one small, difficult but justifiable decision at a time.
TFSmith121
Banned
So, wait ... are you saying the road to hell is
So, wait ... are you saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions?
Best,
So, wait ... are you saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions?
Best,
So, wait ... are you saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions?
Best,
Not always. But it makes a more interesting story...
TFSmith121
Banned
Fair enough...let's see where it goes.
Fair enough...let's see where it goes.
Best,
Fair enough...let's see where it goes.
Best,