Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy
Banned
In the aftermath of either WWI or WWII. Would they be seen as potentially disloyal?
Communist Finland: consequences for its Swedes?
- Thread starter Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy
- Start date
Ålanders are the only Finns that speak only Swedish. They considered themselves Swedes and wished to be annexed by Sweden in the aftermath of the independence of Finland. Finland and Sweden settled the matter diplomatically with specially autonomous status being granted to Åland. If ITTL both countries are unfriendly the matter wouldn't meet such a smooth solution and the Ålanders could end up being seen as unloyal citizens.
As for other Swedish-speaking (bilinguous) Finns, they'll always be seen as Finns. Not all of Finland speaks Swedish but the language is part of the Finnish culture. Even Helsinki is bilinguous...
Don Grey
Banned
That totaly depends on how finns came to be commies and how they delt with it. If it was by force as in the sovient conquest they may veiw the sweds just the same as them sharing in the same terrible fate. If the finns chose to become communists it depends on what type of communists they become. If its done by nationalist red finns they that may be a problam for there swedish minority.
Generally speaking, I have always thought that Swedish-speaking Finns would be very likely to try to flee out of a Communist Finland, and that they would be very well placed geographically to do so. So expect fleets of ships and boats leaving Finland for Sweden as soon as the Communists have taken over.
There are two direct consequenses of this: firstly, the number of Swedish-speakers left in Finland would plummet, maybe even below 100 000. Secondly, because of the tendency of making a run for it, even the remaining members of the minority would be seen as anti-revolutionary and disloyal. Their real or imagined connections to Sweden would have the same effect.
A bit less directly, Sweden would have a large new minority that still considers itself Finnish. It would have a major effect on Swedish politics.
Those members of Swedish-speaking upper and upper middle classes and non-Socialist intelligentsia that did not escape would find themselves relocated to remote parts of the Soviet Union. Even large-scale relocations of ordinary people might be possible, with the coastal areas where they used to live repopulated with Russians and other "loyal" nationalities and/or taken over as military areas. This would be a very important and vulnerable border region, after all.
Most repressive actions against the Swedish-speakers would be instigated by the Soviet authorities, though: outside the fact that the language minority is stereotypically seen as more well-off and more given to conservative than leftist politics, Finnish Communists as such would have little need to victimize the group specifically. So generally speaking I would think that any power retained by Finnish Communists locally would likely manifest as better and more lenient conditions for the Swedish-speaking minority.
There is and has been historically a tendency for negative feelings against the "Swedish-speaking better people" among some monolingual Finns, mainly working classes. These feelings might be used by Soviets to marginalize the group if it is consided disloyal or by opportunistic Finnish Communist leaders to enhance their own position vis a vis the Soviet leadership.
There are two direct consequenses of this: firstly, the number of Swedish-speakers left in Finland would plummet, maybe even below 100 000. Secondly, because of the tendency of making a run for it, even the remaining members of the minority would be seen as anti-revolutionary and disloyal. Their real or imagined connections to Sweden would have the same effect.
A bit less directly, Sweden would have a large new minority that still considers itself Finnish. It would have a major effect on Swedish politics.
Those members of Swedish-speaking upper and upper middle classes and non-Socialist intelligentsia that did not escape would find themselves relocated to remote parts of the Soviet Union. Even large-scale relocations of ordinary people might be possible, with the coastal areas where they used to live repopulated with Russians and other "loyal" nationalities and/or taken over as military areas. This would be a very important and vulnerable border region, after all.
Most repressive actions against the Swedish-speakers would be instigated by the Soviet authorities, though: outside the fact that the language minority is stereotypically seen as more well-off and more given to conservative than leftist politics, Finnish Communists as such would have little need to victimize the group specifically. So generally speaking I would think that any power retained by Finnish Communists locally would likely manifest as better and more lenient conditions for the Swedish-speaking minority.
There is and has been historically a tendency for negative feelings against the "Swedish-speaking better people" among some monolingual Finns, mainly working classes. These feelings might be used by Soviets to marginalize the group if it is consided disloyal or by opportunistic Finnish Communist leaders to enhance their own position vis a vis the Soviet leadership.
I stand corrected. If bilinguous Finns are perceived as bourgeois, they're fucked.
Also, the exodus possibility is very real.
I agree with the above. If the reds win the civil war, most Swedish speakers, the upper class, the military staff all moves to Sweden, where they are more or less welcomed. Guess much of the above would be "absorbed" into the Swedish society without much problem, especially the military. Those with experience of fighting Russians or Communists would be very valuable.
A bit tougher for the non-Swedish speaking, but not that hard. The Finns were very similar and Finland had been a part of Sweden for hundreds of years. We had a lot of Finns coming to Sweden during the last century, and it worked out fairly well. During the winter war children were sent to Swedish families, and there was a mass work force immigration in the 50:ies. The latter got free or very cheap living, Finnish pages in the newspapers, paid education in Swedish, etc. That said, the Finns could didn't always get treated well, but it would work out.
Sweden will change in some ways. If Finland were to fall to Communism in the civil war, I believe Åland will be occupied. Since the Swedish fleet would match the Soviet Baltic one in 39-40, I guess they would try that if it fell to an invasion too.
Speaking of that, I believe there were preparations for the Swedish army to move into Finland an set up defences there, if Finland were to fall during the Winter war. The generals were supposedly going to order that by themselves when the Soviet troops reached a certain place in Finland, without waiting for orders from the government. Since there would be a real fear of our new/old neighbour, I could see that move being accepted.
If Finland goes communist, or fall to Soviet invasion, you can expect Swedish defence spending to sky rocket. In our time Sweden was quite militarized by the end of the War and during much of the cold war (with the 4th largest air force in the world, amongst other things). With a border to a communist nation, it will be ever more.
The border, which would either be on the current border or a bit into Finland, will be heavily militarized. Expect a Swedish Maginot line. In our time, a lot of defences (including forts & coastal artillery) were built in the north during the cold war, and much of the army, air force and special forces were stationed there. In a similar manner, the Baltic will be heavily mined, particularly around Åland.
It will probably stay that way, and you can't expect the same defence cuts as in our time. Some projects that were cancelled will likely be continued, like the nuclear weapons programme. It was cancelled in favour for the JA-37 Viggens, but here both are likely continued. With a border to a Soviet nation the ability to strike against Leningrad and the Baltic states will be regarded as the only sensible deterrent to many.
Expect a navy with more ships for Baltic operations. Small submarines, ASW vessels and small attack crafts to defend against a naval invasion will likely be the main part, with heavy investments in anti ship missiles.
Politically Sweden would probably move toward the right, and away from the neutrality. It would probably join NATO with Norway, or form some kind of defence union with it.
Culturally Sweden will change a bit: Every home now have a Sauna and Vodka, not beer, will be the main method of getting drunk
