Commonwealth of America

[It's]

Why would the Brits give independence to a place that will soon have a larger population than them as a single nation? They will want to divide and rule. If there is an overarching loose structure they will stay within it..

Because they want their loyal colonies to be stronger. They will be stronger if they are united. Good for the colonies= good for empire= good for Britain. Inside an empire, it's not a zero-sum game. You might notice that Australia and Canada are federations too (not yet as populace, but...).

Divide and rule, divide and rule, divide and rule, divide and rule... The evil Bruddush bringing tension and misery where there was just harmonious utopia before. Yes, that's right, instability within an empire is really good for business!

 

[Socrates]

Because they want their loyal colonies to be stronger. They will be stronger if they are united. Good for the colonies= good for empire= good for Britain. Inside an empire, it's not a zero-sum game. You might notice that Australia and Canada are federations too (not yet as populace, but...).

Divide and rule, divide and rule, divide and rule, divide and rule... The evil Bruddush bringing tension and misery where there was just harmonious utopia before. Yes, that's right, instability within an empire is really good for business!

They don't want their loyal colonies to be stronger than them, because then pretty soon they'd be the junior partner to another power. Wanting to avoid that doesn't make them evil, it just makes them sensible. Both Australia and Canada were made as federations that were much smaller than Britain in terms of population and GDP. And Canada was only federalised late as a way of protecting them from American annexation. Who does this united North America need to be strong against here?

It's also not instilling any instability to just have multiple colonies. Did Ontario and Nova Scotia go to war before federalisation? No. I could perhaps see Britain making several smaller federations out of North America, but there's no way a country unites most of its empire to be more powerful than she is, completely unnecessarily.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

Because they want their loyal colonies to be stronger. They will be stronger if they are united. Good for the colonies= good for empire= good for Britain. Inside an empire, it's not a zero-sum game. You might notice that Australia and Canada are federations too (not yet as populace, but...).

Divide and rule, divide and rule, divide and rule, divide and rule... The evil Bruddush bringing tension and misery where there was just harmonious utopia before. Yes, that's right, instability within an empire is really good for business!

Exactly.
In this TL, the British decided an independent state with ties to the empire was better than an independent state that is an enemy of the empire.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

They don't want their loyal colonies to be stronger than them, because then pretty soon they'd be the junior partner to another power. Wanting to avoid that doesn't make them evil, it just makes them sensible. Both Australia and Canada were made as federations that were much smaller than Britain in terms of population and GDP. And Canada was only federalised late as a way of protecting them from American annexation. Who does this united North America need to be strong against here?

It's also not instilling any instability to just have multiple colonies. Did Ontario and Nova Scotia go to war before federalisation? No. I could perhaps see Britain making several smaller federations out of North America, but there's no way a country unites most of its empire to be more powerful than she is, completely unnecessarily.

Good points.
Maybe Britain colonizes most of North America, then carves it up into smaller dominions that eventually form an EU-style coalition amongst themselves.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

Here's a map of post-colonial North America.

http://i.imgur.com/BIhlO3U.jpg

Dark blue is the Maritime Union.
Light blue is the Republic of Quebec.
Turquoise is the Dominion of Columbia.
Salmon/pink is the Dominion of Canada.
Green is the Commonwealth of Cascadia.
Sand-colour is the Commonwealth of Alta California.
Brown is the Republic of Texas.
Orange is Mexico.

 

[It's]

They don't want their loyal colonies to be stronger than them, because then pretty soon they'd be the junior partner to another power. Wanting to avoid that doesn't make them evil, it just makes them sensible. Both Australia and Canada were made as federations that were much smaller than Britain in terms of population and GDP. And Canada was only federalised late as a way of protecting them from American annexation. Who does this united North America need to be strong against here?

It's also not instilling any instability to just have multiple colonies. Did Ontario and Nova Scotia go to war before federalisation? No. I could perhaps see Britain making several smaller federations out of North America, but there's no way a country unites most of its empire to be more powerful than she is, completely unnecessarily.

I cannot see Britain adopting the chaotic Spanish model. A fat lot of good it did them in Latin America.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

I cannot see Britain adopting the chaotic Spanish model. A fat lot of good it did them in Latin America.

True.
And the smaller, weaker Latin American colonies STILL gained independence from Spain. Divide and conquer certainly didn't work in their case.

 

[Caesar Biden]

In regards to this "divide and conquer" thing: Britain already had colonies that were technically separate. Why not just continue the system already in place?

For example: Pretty rapidly, Ohio is going to be colonized pretty quickly. Now, states have all these claims to territory that they're fighting over, so this is the time when Britain steps in, assigns territory to a new Colony of Ohio, and works out the borders between the colonies. Rinse and Repeat.

Or instead of Britain itself, it's a commission they've set up in the colonies to regulate these sort of affairs.

Whichever way, the various colonies remain semi-divided but at the same time united in a regional sense, and Western expansion continues on schedule, with the British army assisting American militias when they fight against the French and Spanish, and a small pan-American army with the sole purpose of frontier duty against the Native Americans.

 

[Faeelin]

It's also not instilling any instability to just have multiple colonies. Did Ontario and Nova Scotia go to war before federalisation? No. I could perhaps see Britain making several smaller federations out of North America, but there's no way a country unites most of its empire to be more powerful than she is, completely unnecessarily.

I'm not sure Britain can really stop it. Pan-American identity was growing rapidly in the 1760s, and arguably beforehand. Witness how colonial elites attended the same colleges even though they were from different colonies, or ministers who would travel from one colony to another...

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

I'm not sure Britain can really stop it. Pan-American identity was growing rapidly in the 1760s, and arguably beforehand. Witness how colonial elites attended the same colleges even though they were from different colonies, or ministers who would travel from one colony to another...

Faeelin has a point. Even if the colonies started off as separate, they would eventually unite, if only as an EU-style alliance.

 

[Faeelin]

Faeelin has a point. Even if the colonies started off as separate, they would eventually unite, if only as an EU-style alliance.

One thing is that the colonists were well aware that they had to unite to balance Britain.

 

[Luath]

Here's a map of post-colonial North America.

http://i.imgur.com/BIhlO3U.jpg

Dark blue is the Maritime Union.
Light blue is the Republic of Quebec.
Turquoise is the Dominion of Columbia.
Salmon/pink is the Dominion of Canada.
Green is the Commonwealth of Cascadia.
Sand-colour is the Commonwealth of Alta California.
Brown is the Republic of Texas.
Orange is Mexico.

Are the Dominions and commonwealths still part of one nation in this post colonial North America? I would recommend reading Robert Sobels 'For want of a Nail', it really provides an interesting base for an idea such as this. I do really like the idea of alt-America balkanized scenario, that instead of along State lines, its along British provincial lines.

Yours
Luath

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

Are the Dominions and commonwealths still part of one nation in this post colonial North America? I would recommend reading Robert Sobels 'For want of a Nail', it really provides an interesting base for an idea such as this. I do really like the idea of alt-America balkanized scenario, that instead of along State lines, its along British provincial lines.

Yours
Luath

Well, they're independent nations with an EU-style economic agreement and they use the same currency.

 

[Luath]

Well, they're independent nations with an EU-style economic agreement and they use the same currency.

Interesting, but I'd have to agree that its extremely unlikely, barring massive upheaval, for the Americans to fracture, especially if they have a history of being united as a nation.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

Interesting, but I'd have to agree that its extremely unlikely, barring massive upheaval, for the Americans to fracture, especially if they have a history of being united as a nation.

Actually, in this TL, Britain split its colonies into smaller federations in order to keep them from becoming too powerful and to keep one ex-colony from dominating the others.

 

[Luath]

Actually, in this TL, Britain split its colonies into smaller federations in order to keep them from becoming too powerful and to keep one ex-colony from dominating the others.

Oh, that's still intriguing, so would identies develop on a regional basis, like a costal one for the maritimes union and industrial one for the Dominion of Columbia?

 

[The Uchronian]

Probably do. However, my idea was that the Dominion outlawed slavery a little after Canada did OTL (in 1833). So yeah, around 1840.

I see. Well, TBH, I'm sure that can be done, but it would be a tad difficult to achieve with the Southern colonies still part of the British Empire, especially as abolitionism did receive a substantial boost after the Patriots won IOTL(and a fair bit of that was because some in even England itself did sympathize, to one extent or the other, the basic ideals which the Revolutionaries fought for). So you'd need to find a workaround for that somehow.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

Oh, that's still intriguing, so would identies develop on a regional basis, like a costal one for the maritimes union and industrial one for the Dominion of Columbia?

Absolutely.

I see Alta California still having a very Mexican-influenced culture, more so than OTL California.