Coming up with Latinized/Italianized Greek and Arabic surnames for nobility?

Zioneer

Zioneer

Banned
So as many know from my signature, I'm writing a timeline about an independent, Norman-ruled (at first) Sicily. However, I have a problem. I'm going by OTL in the mid 1100s in terms of the Norman aristocracy rebelling against the Sicilian crown, but unlike OTL, I'm having the kingdom be more pro-active with replacing the rebels with new, loyal soldiers, some Lombard/Italian, some Greek Catholic converts, and eventually possibly some Catholicized Arabic nobles.

I understand that this might be a little implausible considering the difficulty of dispossessing a noble's family from their lands, but assuming at least a few instances happen, I'm trying to figure out Lombard surnames (which won't have to be Latinized), Greek (which will be Latinized), and Arab patronymics (which I have no idea what to do with).

For example, if I had a branch of the Phokas family settle in Sicily, what would their name change to? I'm also not familiar with Lombard surnames that could show up.

Basically, I'm trying to diversify the surnames beyond the half a dozen that seem to show up in Norman Sicily, so what surnames would be common among the various cultures, and how could they be changed to be more suitable for a Sicilian culture?
 
Umbric Man

Umbric Man

Phokas would just replace the K with a C, it's ridiculously easy for Latins to pronounce. That one's almost painfully obvious tho', haha.

Germanic names at this time period have diverged from Proto-Germanic, but still pretty damn easy to Latinize if you know good examples of Latinized Germanic names from OTL. The same goes for specific names - until Christianization and further language diversion, the way Germanic names were set up and used was common amongst all the tribes and peoples, so one 'famous' name amongst the Lombards was just as valid or used regularly by the Saxons, Franks, Goths, Angles, etc. So if you're in need of extra 'Lombardic' names, just smash together some common Germanic pre-and-suffixes, maybe see the a list of Lombards to see any ones they particularly liked.

IE, the famous Lombardic King's name of Liutprand is 'Loud-Brand (flame)' in English words, (H)Ludbrand in Old English. It wouldn't be too hard to turn it into...IDK, Luprantus or so using Latin pronunciation.

EDIT: https://books.google.com/books?id=b...KHXYcC-oQ6AEINTAE#v=onepage&q=Lioutio&f=false Okay, I wasn't too far off. Liutprandus!
 

John7755 يوحنا

Are you asking how Arabic looks latinized?

Arabic names are usually go something like Yahya ibn Dawud al-Amrikki, Maryam bint Husayn al-Farsi or you would use Abu as in father of whomever. Often times as well in the two examples names are based on your origin, so a Norman sultan could be Yahya ibn Ya'qub al-Phokas or John son of Jacob the Phokas.

Or are you asking how Phokas would look in Arabic, فوكس Phokas.
 
Practical Lobster

Practical Lobster

Just jumping in to ask wouldn't it be better to make it spelled Fokas? By some convention, it seems that latinizations of Arabic tend to not use the "ph" diagraph.
 
Zioneer

Zioneer

Banned
John7755 يوحنا said:
Are you asking how Arabic looks latinized?

Arabic names are usually go something like Yahya ibn Dawud al-Amrikki, Maryam bint Husayn al-Farsi or you would use Abu as in father of whomever. Often times as well in the two examples names are based on your origin, so a Norman sultan could be Yahya ibn Ya'qub al-Phokas or John son of Jacob the Phokas.

Or are you asking how Phokas would look in Arabic, فوكس Phokas.
Click to expand...

Mostly Latinized Arabic, since while the Normans were known to their Muslim subjects by Arabized names (heck, Roger II of Sicily had a cloak embroidered with a phrase in Arabic), my TL will mostly have people known by Latinized/Anglicized names. So Roberto Bonnello would be Robert Bonnellus, etc. Latin Alphabet Greek names will also show up, of course.

But I'll definitely use names like the ones you're suggesting.

As a side note, is there an equivalent to "Simon" or "William" in Arabic? Also, I'm using the Venetian surname "Dandelo", would that just be al-Dandelo?
 

John7755 يوحنا

Zioneer said:
Mostly Latinized Arabic, since while the Normans were known to their Muslim subjects by Arabized names (heck, Roger II of Sicily had a cloak embroidered with a phrase in Arabic), my TL will mostly have people known by Latinized/Anglicized names. So Roberto Bonnello would be Robert Bonnellus, etc. Latin Alphabet Greek names will also show up, of course.

But I'll definitely use names like the ones you're suggesting.

As a side note, is there an equivalent to "Simon" or "William" in Arabic? Also, I'm using the Venetian surname "Dandelo", would that just be al-Dandelo?
Click to expand...

Melham = William & Sim'aan = Simon
 
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