Churchill and Stalin's plans for Germany go ahead.

Tom_NUFC

In October 1944, Churchill met Stalin in Moscow. Amongst the many issues discussed was the future partition of Germany.

Churchill gives details of what was discussed in a note sent to Roosevelt on October 22, 1944, which was later included in 'Triumph and Tragedy', Volume VI of his series 'The Second World War'.

6. We also discussed informally the future partition of Germany. U.J. (Uncle Joe = Stalin) wants Poland, Czecho and Hungary to form a realm of independent anti-Nazi, pro-Russian states, the first two of which might join together. Contrary to his previously expressed view, he would be glad to see Vienna the capital of a federation of South German States, including Austria, Bavaria, Wurttemburg and Baden. As you know, the idea of a Danubian federation has always been attractive to me, though I should prefer to add Hungary, to which U.J. is strongly opposed.

7. As to Prussia, U.J. wished the Ruhr and the Saar detatched and put out of action and probably under international control, and a separate State formed in the Rhineland. He wold also like the internationalisation of the Kiel Canal. I am not opposed to this line of thought. However, you may be sure that we came to no fixed conclusions pending the triple meeting.
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Winston S. Churchill, The Second World War, Volume VI: Triumph and Tragedy (London: Cassell, 1954) p. 205

So, lets say that an agreement is reached where by Germany is split in this way. Churchill and Stalin compromise over Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, the former two not uniting and the latter not becoming part of a Danubian federation.

So, the post war map looks perhaps a little like the diagram below.

What is the future and make up for Germany?

churchillgermany.JPG
 

Johnrankins

The Ruhr and Sarrland join the Republic of the Rhineland very shortly after any international forces leave and then you have a three way fight over who is going to reunite Germany.
 

Wendell

So, the Republic of Prussia would not be Communist, and would contain no part of historic East Prussia?
 
Michel Van

Michel Van

there was after 1945
harsh Demands by France, Belgium and Netherlands
for parts of German

Belgium wantet Rheinland. This plan was dropped after an Allied refusal

Netherlands wantet also parts of Rheinland and Niedersachsen.
atlong its border.
"The Dutch government initially developed plans to annex a sizable portion of Germany, either with or without German population — which in the latter case would have to be 'Dutchified' — doubling the land area of the Netherlands. This plan was dropped after an Allied refusal"

France almost intregrated Saarland als French departement.
and had to "Frenchified" the population.

Source Wikipedia
 

BrotherToAll

I wonder how would America feel just being snubbed by Churchill and Stalin having no say about what happens after the war?
 

aktarian

Two things that have to be considered in the long term.

Cold War
Once it starts I doubt US/West would be thrilled with having several countries on the iron courtain. First of all they wouldn't be able to defend themselves, secondly they would be easier picking for Soviets/communists

Viability
What are chances of them actually succeding as states? Specially as they would be devastated by war and disrupted access to coal etc due to new borders. Which could translate to much worse conditions and easier gains for communists.

So even if this survives start of cold war (not likely but not entirely impossible) one can assume they would be forming close ties pretty quick moving to EU-like form.
 
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