Charles IV of Spain: No abdication

[LeopoldPhilippe]

Charles IV was King of Spain from 1788 to 1808.
By 1792 he had relinquished practically all responsibility for Spain to his chief minister, Manuel Godoy.
After a series of humiliating defeats, Godoy was overthrown. By 1808 Charles's own people turned against him. He was forced to abdicate.
Suppose King Charles IV had not let Manuel Godoy have so much power. Would Charles not have had to abdicate?

 

[Alt History Buff]

Charles IV was King of Spain from 1788 to 1808.
By 1792 he had relinquished practically all responsibility for Spain to his chief minister, Manuel Godoy.
After a series of humiliating defeats, Godoy was overthrown. By 1808 Charles's own people turned against him. He was forced to abdicate.
Suppose King Charles IV had not let Manuel Godoy have so much power. Would Charles not have had to abdicate?

Charles IV was an idiot and a weakling. He wasn't going to govern himself. However, he might have picked someone less malevolent and corrupt than his wife's lover.

Maybe if the Queen died or found another lover?

Or maybe their heir might solicite better relations and take over for his Father early as his defacto Prime Minister with all the power and most of the wealth?

Certainly, Bonaparte's invasion would have had less success in the opening stages if there was something resembling a strong leader in Spain. Godoy spent most of his time negotiating a private kingdom for himself by what gets carved out of Portugal.

It is a pity that Charles III didn't live a bit longer. Spain's history might have been very different with a stronger and smarter leader in these times. Charles III was one of the better 18th century monarchs in Europe.

 

[euromellows]

Charles IV was an idiot and a weakling. He wasn't going to govern himself. However, he might have picked someone less malevolent and corrupt than his wife's lover.

Maybe if the Queen died or found another lover?

Or maybe their heir might solicite better relations and take over for his Father early as his defacto Prime Minister with all the power and most of the wealth?

Certainly, Bonaparte's invasion would have had less success in the opening stages if there was something resembling a strong leader in Spain. Godoy spent most of his time negotiating a private kingdom for himself by what gets carved out of Portugal.

It is a pity that Charles III didn't live a bit longer. Spain's history might have been very different with a stronger and smarter leader in these times. Charles III was one of the better 18th century monarchs in Europe.

I agree with all this, except perhaps the implied suggestion that Ferdinand VII might solicit better relations. Unfortunately for Spain he was, if not quite as stupid as his father, rather approaching it. I like your POD for Charles III surviving longer, perhaps he is able to recognise the inherent weaknesses of his son and empowers a political chief to wield the real power after he has gone.

 

[Alt History Buff]

I agree with all this, except perhaps the implied suggestion that Ferdinand VII might solicit better relations. Unfortunately for Spain he was, if not quite as stupid as his father, rather approaching it. I like your POD for Charles III surviving longer, perhaps he is able to recognise the inherent weaknesses of his son and empowers a political chief to wield the real power after he has gone.

Yes, Ferdinand wasn't a peach either by any means.

Neither Charles IV or Ferdinand would do well for the people of Spain.

However, it was the dispute that led to the French intervention and conquest. If that could be avoided, many butterflies.

 

[funnyhat]

It is a pity that Charles III didn't live a bit longer. Spain's history might have been very different with a stronger and smarter leader in these times. Charles III was one of the better 18th century monarchs in Europe.

Well, he did live to be 72, which was quite old for that time period. Had he lived another decade he might not have been able to give his country the same kind of governance as before.

 

[LeopoldPhilippe]

Charles IV's wife, Queen Maria Louisa arranged for Manuel Godoy to be Prime Minister. Godoy's appointment seemed to have been accomplished with the full acceptance of King Charles IV.
Godoy continued Spain's neutral policy towards the French Republic.
In August 1796 Godoy negotiated and signed the Second Treaty of San Ildefonso with France which required that Spain declare war on Great Britain.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yes, Ferdinand wasn't a peach either by any means.

Neither Charles IV or Ferdinand would do well for the people of Spain.

However, it was the dispute that led to the French intervention and conquest. If that could be avoided, many butterflies.

Give Charles a less domineering and capricious wife than M-L and you might have something ....Government ministers are more likely to come to the fore and dominate the Spanish government. Aranda and Floridablanca, despite their opposition to each other knew what they were doing and were better suited to navigating Spain through the perils of the French Revolution than Godoy. Simply have Josef's request after Isabella's death for Charles' engagement to M-L be with drawn.....(Charles III refused) This probably means a Hapsburg bride for Charles, which might not get us what we want, but perhaps not.