Charles II of England and Catherine of Braganza have children.

[Nova_Philomena]

In OTL, Catherine of Braganza, Queen Consort of England was said to have miscarried three times at the very least, and the only surviving legitimate children Charles ever had were with his many mistresses. Thus after his death, Charles's younger brother, James Stuart, Duke of York succeeded him and would eventually be followed by his two famed daughters who would bring about the end of the House of Stuart.

But what if they managed to have at least three children (A son and two daughters);

1. Charles, Prince of Wales (b. 1664)
2. Catherine of England (b. 1665)
3. Henrietta of England (b. 1667)

The obvious butterfly effect would be Maria d'Modena, who would not marry James considering the Duke of Modena and the Pope only agreed to that match in an attempt to recreate a Catholic England. This would also mean the Jacobites wont be an issue in this TL.

Catholicism and Protestantism will play major factors. Anti-Catholic sentiment had been growing ever since the controversial Queens Henrietta Maria and Catherine of Braganza had came to England. During Charles II's lifetime, he was rumored to have been a secretive Catholic and those suspicions were confirmed when he finally converted to his death-bed. Charles Jr.'s religious upbringing would be scrutinized heavily, especially by devout Protestant nobles and clergy. If Charles Jr.'s is secretly raised Catholic, he might end up marrying an unpopular bride as well.

Next, Mary and Anne play very moderate roles. They'd probably still be involved in court-life considering their father is one step behind the Prince of Wales, but Mary isn't marrying William of Orange and I doubt Anne would be marrying Prince George of Denmark either. At most Anne would get him and Mary would marry him.

How else would things change?

 

[Dragonboy]

The future Charles III would be raised as a protestant, and the crown would be able to hold onto the powers the glorious revolution stripped from them. And i imagine that charles would make his illigitimate children to be utterly loyal to charles jr.

 

[Nova_Philomena]

The future Charles III would be raised as a protestant, and the crown would be able to hold onto the powers the glorious revolution stripped from them. And i imagine that charles would make his illigitimate children to be utterly loyal to charles jr.

Charles Jr. could potentially be raised secretly Catholic. I cant imagine Charles II would entertain the idea of making it public that the heir to the English throne was a Catholic. But I can imagine Charles Jr. being a public Protestant at the very least, but being tolerant of Catholics. Sorta like Isabella of Austria and Anna d'Este.

 

[Dragonboy]

Charles Jr. could potentially be raised secretly Catholic. I cant imagine Charles II would entertain the idea of making it public that the heir to the English throne was a Catholic. But I can imagine Charles Jr. being a public Protestant at the very least, but being tolerant of Catholics. Sorta like Isabella of Austria and Anna d'Este.

Yep. Gotta maintain apparences after the civil war fiasco. And what good protestant bride would be ideal for him?

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Yep. Gotta maintain apparences after the civil war fiasco. And what good protestant bride would be ideal for him?

Elisabeth Henriette of Hesse-Kassel, her sister is the Queen Consort of Denmark.

 

[Dragonboy]

Elisabeth Henriette of Hesse-Kassel, her sister is the Queen Consort of Denmark.

Sounds good. And would Anne and Mary have better luck with children this time around?

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Sounds good. And would Anne and Mary have better luck with children this time around?

Hopefully, poor Anne 😥

 

[Dragonboy]

Hopefully, poor Anne 😥

Yeah, she and george deserved to have at least little william survive!

 

[Nuraghe]

In OTL, Catherine of Braganza, Queen Consort of England was said to have miscarried three times at the very least, and the only surviving legitimate children Charles ever had were with his many mistresses. Thus after his death, Charles's younger brother, James Stuart, Duke of York succeeded him and would eventually be followed by his two famed daughters who would bring about the end of the House of Stuart.

But what if they managed to have at least three children (A son and two daughters);

1. Charles, Prince of Wales (b. 1664)
2. Catherine of England (b. 1665)
3. Henrietta of England (b. 1667)

The obvious butterfly effect would be Maria d'Modena, who would not marry James considering the Duke of Modena and the Pope only agreed to that match in an attempt to recreate a Catholic England. This would also mean the Jacobites wont be an issue in this TL.

Catholicism and Protestantism will play major factors. Anti-Catholic sentiment had been growing ever since the controversial Queens Henrietta Maria and Catherine of Braganza had came to England. During Charles II's lifetime, he was rumored to have been a secretive Catholic and those suspicions were confirmed when he finally converted to his death-bed. Charles Jr.'s religious upbringing would be scrutinized heavily, especially by devout Protestant nobles and clergy. If Charles Jr.'s is secretly raised Catholic, he might end up marrying an unpopular bride as well.

Next, Mary and Anne play very moderate roles. They'd probably still be involved in court-life considering their father is one step behind the Prince of Wales, but Mary isn't marrying William of Orange and I doubt Anne would be marrying Prince George of Denmark either. At most Anne would get him and Mary would marry him.

How else would things change?

the first important changes, in addition to making the Otl reigns of James II and his two daughters disappear, concern in particular the virulent growth of anti-Catholicism, which Otl grew due to the obvious succession of his brother James to Charles, which does not happen here, a the other event that will be significantly influenced is the English intervention against Otl's France, which potentially could not happen, given that Charles was notoriously more pro-French than his brother James, furthermore with a son to succeed him we will not see the conditions that led Otl to Glorious Revolution so no William ( also because he would not have the political weight to oust a king who was raised as a Protestant at least externally, Charles will ensure that his heir has an education completely similar to that of Anna and Mary Otl ) gaining control of English resources to fight Louis, and this causes a notable change because it means France has to worry about one less enemy than Otl, and will allow him to be in a better position in his wars , which results in a net territorial gain ( whether in the Netherlands, Lorraine or the Rhine ), the two duchesses of York, on the other hand, can easily be used by their uncle to establish diplomatic relations with the Catholic powers as the girls are quite low in the succession ( Maybe Mary gets her French match or ends up married in Vienna ?, although I doubt they get too high matches, particularly if there are any direct royal princesses ), it cannot be ruled out that Charles may continue his political program of keeping one foot in both shoes, in particular from a religious point of view, where although he protected and favored the Anglican church, he used every alternative diplomatic channel at his disposal to communicate with Rome for obtain a series of favors or privileges to facilitate his rule over the popish population of the kingdom ( especially in Ireland ) for the rest I can't think of anything else at the moment

 

[Nova_Philomena]

the first important changes, in addition to making the Otl reigns of James II and his two daughters disappear, concern in particular the virulent growth of anti-Catholicism, which Otl grew due to the obvious succession of his brother James to Charles, which does not happen here, a the other event that will be significantly influenced is the English intervention against Otl's France, which potentially could not happen, given that Charles was notoriously more pro-French than his brother James, furthermore with a son to succeed him we will not see the conditions that led Otl to Glorious Revolution so no William ( also because he would not have the political weight to oust a king who was raised as a Protestant at least externally, Charles will ensure that his heir has an education completely similar to that of Anna and Mary Otl ) gaining control of English resources to fight Louis, and this causes a notable change because it means France has to worry about one less enemy than Otl, and will allow him to be in a better position in his wars , which results in a net territorial gain ( whether in the Netherlands, Lorraine or the Rhine ), the two duchesses of York, on the other hand, can easily be used by their uncle to establish diplomatic relations with the Catholic powers as the girls are quite low in the succession ( Maybe Mary gets her French match or ends up married in Vienna ?, although I doubt they get too high matches, particularly if there are any direct royal princesses ), it cannot be ruled out that Charles may continue his political program of keeping one foot in both shoes, in particular from a religious point of view, where although he protected and favored the Anglican church, he used every alternative diplomatic channel at his disposal to communicate with Rome for obtain a series of favors or privileges to facilitate his rule over the popish population of the kingdom ( especially in Ireland ) for the rest I can't think of anything else at the moment

I can see a French match, but I doubt any of the Austrian Archdukes want minor English nobility to be their wives.

 

[Dragonboy]

I can see a French match, but I doubt any of the Austrian Archdukes want minor English nobility to be their wives.

Could catherine (daughter of charles) be considered for Leopold i hre?

 

[Nuraghe]

I can see a French match, but I doubt any of the Austrian Archdukes want minor English nobility to be their wives.

well perhaps Austria might not want it, but it should not be forgotten that Charles carried out an important diplomatic campaign between the Italian powers ( officially to build good trade relations, in reality also for other reasons ) so the possibility of seeing this end in a peninsula court one of the two duchesses of York

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Could catherine (daughter of charles) be considered for Leopold i hre?

I doubt it, but that would be very interesting.

Leopold's first two wives Margaret Theresa and Claudia Felicitas shared the traits of being inbred and sickly, which is why he turned to Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg in OTL who was from a fertile not closely inbred family who managed to provide him with successors. If Catherine of England can convert to Roman Catholicism, I think Leopold might consider it. After all, Catherine would be a descendant of the Braganza's and Bourbons who aren't too closely tied to Austria (at least not yet.)

Maybe one of Eleonore Magdalene's sisters for Charles Jr. instead of Hesse-Kassel.

 

[Nova_Philomena]

well perhaps Austria might not want it, but it should not be forgotten that Charles carried out an important diplomatic campaign between the Italian powers ( officially to build good trade relations, in reality also for other reasons ) so the possibility of seeing this end in a peninsula court one of the two duchesses of York

Maybe a surviving Archduke Charles Joseph of Austria who is either widowed or unmarried for Princess Mary of York.

 

[Dragonboy]

I doubt it, but that would be very interesting.

Leopold's first two wives Margaret Theresa and Claudia Felicitas shared the traits of being inbred and sickly, which is why he turned to Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg in OTL who was from a fertile not closely inbred family who managed to provide him with successors. If Catherine of England can convert to Roman Catholicism, I think Leopold might consider it. After all, Catherine would be a descendant of the Braganza's and Bourbons who aren't too closely tied to Austria (at least not yet.)

Maybe one of Eleonore Magdalene's sisters for Charles Jr. instead of Hesse-Kassel.

Yep. I think catherine would bit the catholic bullet to become empress and foster the imperial line.

 

[Nuraghe]

I doubt it, but that would be very interesting.

Leopold's first two wives Margaret Theresa and Claudia Felicitas shared the traits of being inbred and sickly, which is why he turned to Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg in OTL who was from a fertile not closely inbred family who managed to provide him with successors. If Catherine of England can convert to Roman Catholicism, I think Leopold might consider it. After all, Catherine would be a descendant of the Braganza's and Bourbons who aren't too closely tied to Austria (at least not yet.)

Maybe one of Eleonore Magdalene's sisters for Charles Jr. instead of Hesse-Kassel.

possible but unlikely to happen, given Charles's well-known aversion towards the minor German dynasties ( all those not part of the Electors 's group ) who he considered on a par with "social climbers" to be polite, in fact I forgot another very important difference with Otl will be that London will have almost very little or no real interest in the internal policies of the HRE compared to both William, Anne and the Hanoverians ( also due to the fact that I doubt that Charles will accept even something vaguely similar to the Act of Settlement of 1701 of Otl, which he considers as a very serious violation of royal prerogatives ), a marriage with a Scandinavian power or with an Electorate ( which can also be considered as a Habsburg proxy ) is more likely

I can certainly see Britain becoming a refuge for all religious refugees fleeing the continent ( considering that with a rising France there will be many who feel unsafe from it in the smaller territories of the HRE who have the misfortune of being on the front line of the conflict, I see many seeking refuge across the Channel ) is considering that Charles and then James wanted to re-integrate the dissidents into the Anglican church to better manage the kingdom ( the former trying to assimilate them, the latter aiming to make them become his power base and then try a third way between the high and low churches ), all this can turn in Charles jr's favor if he is played skillfully

 

[Nova_Philomena]

possible but unlikely to happen, given Charles's well-known aversion towards the minor German dynasties ( all those not part of the Electors 's group ) who he considered on a par with "social climbers" to be polite, in fact I forgot another very important difference with Otl will be that London will have almost very little or no real interest in the internal policies of the HRE compared to both William, Anne and the Hanoverians ( also due to the fact that I doubt that Charles will accept even something vaguely similar to the Act of Settlement of 1701 of Otl, which he considers as a very serious violation of royal prerogatives ), a marriage with a Scandinavian power or with an Electorate ( which can also be considered as a Habsburg proxy ) is more likely

Maybe Sophia of Hanover's eldest son, Elector George (Who will NOT become King of Great Britain in this TL) for Catherine or Henrietta?

 

[Nuraghe]

Maybe Sophia of Hanover's eldest son, Elector George (Who will NOT become King of Great Britain in this TL) for Catherine or Henrietta?

I doubt that Charles even takes it into consideration, for the simple reason that the Hanoverians obtained their title of electors only for the simple fact of being the direct heirs of the English throne according to the new laws in force after the glorious revolution ( Vienna was looking for a way to stay in London's good graces for decades to come, knowing that the Hanoverians would take the English throne ) , but since here all this is largely avoided also affects their rise

 

[HortenseMancini]

Personally I prefer a daughter and two sons when I imagine children for Charles and Catherine. Something like...

Charles, Prince of Wales, etc. (b. 1663) m. Marie-Anne of France (b. 1664)
Henry, Duke of Clarence (b. 1666) m. Elisabeth of Orange-Nassau (b. 1673)
Catherine, Princess Royal (b. 1669) m. Frederik IV of Denmark (b. 1671)

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Personally I prefer a daughter and two sons when I imagine children for Charles and Catherine. Something like...

Charles, Prince of Wales, etc. (b. 1663) m. Marie-Anne of France (b. 1664)
Henry, Duke of Clarence (b. 1666) m. Elisabeth of Orange-Nassau (b. 1673)
Catherine, Princess Royal (b. 1669) m. Frederik IV of Denmark (b. 1671)

Do you mean the Kings Bastard daughter, Marie Anne de Bourbon, or his short-lived daughter with his wife, Marie Therese of Spain?