Challenge: United States Battleship Division 9 interned at Scapa Flow with HSF

[Blair152]

An explanation about the title. I'm writing an alternate history novel in which
United States Battleship Division 9, which served with the Royal Navy's Grand Fleet during World War I, is interned at Scapa Flow with the German
High Seas Fleet. The reason? American reluctance to help the British in the
Bolshevik Revolution. When the American battleships are about to leave,
Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, the commander of the Grand Fleet, orders the American battleships into Scapa Flow with the HSF. The Allies, who've lost
most, if not all, of their BBs, in the war, decide to seize the American battleships. The Americans, not wanting to have their ships seized, and not wanting to scuttle them, conspire with the Germans to escape. The American Secretary of State, I made him William Jennings Bryan, since I don't know who the Secretary of State in 1919 was, writes the British government protesting the internment of the American crews and comparing it to the impressment of American seamen during the War of 1812, demands their return, and the return of American property. The
British government's position is: "They're now the property of His Majesty's Government, and will be disposed of as His Majesty sees fit."
That's a brief thumbnail. I don't want to give it way. Suffice it to say, that
due to what the American government considers an insult to its national pride, begins a cold war with Britain------building the South Dakota class of 1920, in response, the British start building the N3 class battleships, and the G3 class battleships. The POD is 1919.

 

[HMS Warspite]

This scenario makes no sense as both the UK and USA are depending on eachother economically and culturally. The British would not do such a drastic act, being not that stupid and neither would the Americans, although sometimes hot tempered. No side wanted a cold war, as this would seriously damage both economically, which was not worth the risk.

 

[Blair152]

So what you're saying is that given a POD of 1919, the British wouldn't be
so spiteful as to intern United States BatDiv 9 and its crews in order to punish the United States for not supporting them in the Bolshevik Revolution? Taylor Anderson, the author of the Destroyermen series, gave this to me as a possible scenario for either keeping the Connecticut class, or
building the South Dakota class of 1920, and not having the Washington Naval Treaty, it's impossible?

 

[Sealion]

"The Allies, who've lost
most, if not all, of their BBs, in the war, decide to seize the American battleships."

This reason doesn't fly - there were in fact remarkably few Battleship losses in WW1. While the British lost some, they still had plenty left, so had no need to grab US ships. I don't think the French or Italians lost any dreadnoughts (a few obsolete pre-dreadnoughts, but none of the modern ones).

So there is no reason for the allies (who were all economically exhausted after 4 years of war) to provoke the Americans (an industriial and economic superpower, and still comparitively fresh) by commiting what is technically an act of war (seizing the fleet) - it just wouldn't happen.

 

[stevep]

So what you're saying is that given a POD of 1919, the British wouldn't be
so spiteful as to intern United States BatDiv 9 and its crews in order to punish the United States for not supporting them in the Bolshevik Revolution? Taylor Anderson, the author of the Destroyermen series, gave this to me as a possible scenario for either keeping the Connecticut class, or
building the South Dakota class of 1920, and not having the Washington Naval Treaty, it's impossible?

Blair152

In a word yes! Britain is feeling very strained and war-weary after the war and was struggling to maintain support for the intervention against the Bolsheviks anyway. To suggest it would do what was an act of war against one of its biggest trading partners and a power it still hoped would become an ally is crazy.

Also, as other people had said Britain, let alone its allies, still have a huge naval force, much bigger than the USN let alone vastly more than they could need for any intervention against the Bolsheviks, who lacked any real fleet or naval facilities.

Steve

 

[Grimm Reaper]

The scenario is absolutely non-credible.

And if the British lost most of their battleships then how did Germany not win the war?

 

[CalBear]

The scenario is absolutely non-credible.

And if the British lost most of their battleships then how did Germany not win the war?

Do not get in the way of BF insanity.

Common sense and actual facts will wither and die. I understand you desire to hold Bard back from the sea, but sometimes you must allow the lemming to run off the cliff.

This is, after all, a poster who used a FICTIONAL book series as part of a discussion regarding condition in the DEI in early 1942.

 

[Markus]

Do not get in the way of BF insanity.

Common sense and actual facts will wither and die. I understand you desire to hold Bard back from the sea, but sometimes you must allow the lemming to run off the cliff.

This is, after all, a poster who used a FICTIONAL book series as part of a discussion regarding condition in the DEI in early 1942.

Meaning you gave up on trying to civilize him?

 

[Caspian]

Do not get in the way of BF insanity.

Common sense and actual facts will wither and die. I understand you desire to hold Bard back from the sea, but sometimes you must allow the lemming to run off the cliff.

This is, after all, a poster who used a FICTIONAL book series as part of a discussion regarding condition in the DEI in early 1942.

Not to mention a bizarre obsession with the Connecticut class battleships.

 

[Cockroach]

Why, if the poms have the entire High Seas Fleet to take over do they bother taking the USN Dreadnoughts?

I don't think the French or Italians lost any dreadnoughts (a few obsolete pre-dreadnoughts, but none of the modern ones).

[pedant]The Italians lost one Dreadnought (Leonardo da Vinci) to an internal explosion while in harbour.[/pedant]

 

[CalBear]

Meaning you gave up on trying to civilize him?

Man's got to know his limitations.

He insulted the U.S. Marine Corps.

No hope for any such.

 

[CalBear]

Not to mention a bizarre obsession with the Connecticut class battleships.

I noticed that too. It is a new infatuation, he didn't display it the last time he was wandering around here.

 

[wormyguy]

He insulted the U.S. Marine Corps.

The Marines' dress uniforms are silly and overwrought. Navy uniforms are the best.

*hides under a table*

 

[DD951]

I noticed that too. It is a new infatuation, he didn't display it the last time he was wandering around here.

Hmm, maybe he saw the thread we had a few months ago about modernized predreadnoughts in WW2, and failed to notice the caveats that among other things, a POD involving a WNT-equivalent which kept a few around in some sort of second-class capital ship would be needed for the idea to make sense......

 

[David S Poepoe]

So what you're saying is that given a POD of 1919, the British wouldn't be
so spiteful as to intern United States BatDiv 9 and its crews in order to punish the United States for not supporting them in the Bolshevik Revolution? Taylor Anderson, the author of the Destroyermen series, gave this to me as a possible scenario for either keeping the Connecticut class, or
building the South Dakota class of 1920, and not having the Washington Naval Treaty, it's impossible?

I wouldn't trust what this Anderson fellow is telling you. He is clearly pulling your leg or displaying gross ignorance.

 

[CalBear]

The Marines' dress uniforms are silly and overwrought. Navy uniforms are the best.

*hides under a table*

Better be a damned strong table!

 

[Sealion]

[pedant]The Italians lost one Dreadnought (Leonardo da Vinci) to an internal explosion while in harbour.[/pedant]

Didn't know that - thanks.

 

[Bill Cameron]

Taylor Anderson, the author of the Destroyermen series...

Good god... The Taylor Anderson who typed the Destroyermen series? That shameless idiotic hack suggested this "idea"?

Relying on bubble gum cards and decades old magazines is bad enough, but consulting with another world-class loony on this "idea" means you're plumbing the depths of a far deeper idiocy this time around.

Frighteningly, this idea has now become a "Perfect Storm" of sorts. We've the usual ignorance, incompetence, and insanity of Bard/Blair compounded with the profound stupidity of a gormless hack typist whose skills as an author make 1930s pulp writers look like Faulkner.

Pull the ripcord on this one folks before a monstrous wave of lunacy smashes your sanity to pieces like the Andrea Gail.

 

[RCAF Brat]

The Marines' dress uniforms are silly and overwrought. Navy uniforms are the best.

*hides under a table*

No, silly and overwrought is a description of the uniforms worn by the guards at the Tower of London. Ditto for the Swiss Guards in the Vatican. The US Marines are quite conservative by comparison.

Now, all of the above, US Marines included, look professional and downright terrifying, even while wearing the silly clothes.

 

[wormyguy]

No, silly and overwrought is a description of the uniforms worn by the guards at the Tower of London. Ditto for the Swiss Guards in the Vatican. The US Marines are quite conservative by comparison.

Now, all of the above, US Marines included, look professional and downright terrifying, even while wearing the silly clothes.

Just because there's someone more silly, doesn't mean they aren't silly.

There's always someone more silly.