Challenge: Replace of one Europe's big three language families

Atterdag · Mar 7, 2020

Most of Europe's languages fall into one of the three categories Slavic, Germanic or Romance. Your challenge is to find a way to replace one of these language families with another one, that does not mean it has to be eliminated completely it just has to be reduced to one of Europe's smaller ones, like Baltic, Celtic or Finno-Ugric. Bonus points of your language family of choice isn't an indo-european one.

I think the easiest language family to replace is Romance, since it spread because of the Roman Empire. If you remove the Roman Empire you could easily see most of Westernmost and South-Western Europe speak Celtic languages instead, with Romance being limited to Italy and the Dalmatian coast.

Skallagrim · Mar 7, 2020

Replacing Romance is indeed easiest. If you avert the rise of Rome, it could end up being replaced by Celtic in the West, Phoenician (Punic) in the South-West, and Hellenic in the South-East.

If you somehow get an Etruscan city-state to usurp Rome's OTL position, that's of course even more interesting.

Analytical Engine · Mar 7, 2020

I'm not sure which one would be next-easiest to replace.

I suppose if East Frankia/HRE/Germany becomes centralised sooner, expands eastwards, and assimilates the Bohemians, Moravians, Slovakians, Poles, Balts etc., that could shrink Slavic numbers. However, I don't know how many Slavic speakers could remain.

Another option is the Germanic tribes spread further eastwards due to lack of Hunnic invasions/the Huns get beaten sooner. Might end up with a Gothic Russia that way.

As for shrinking Germanic numbers:

No Anglo-Saxon conquest of England for sure, leaving the British Isles speaking mostly either Celtic or Romano-British languages.

Maybe more German tribes migrate into the Roman Empire, becoming assimilated on the way, so they speak Romance instead of Germanic Languages, but IDK about that one.

Maybe the Roman Empire expands even further north, assimilating much of western and southern Germany to the point that they speak Romance languages instead of Germanic ones? Meanwhile, if you wank the Slavs (and Balts), that could keep the remaining Germanic speakers hemmed in.

Brita · Mar 7, 2020

Skallagrim said:
Replacing Romance is indeed easiest. If you avert the rise of Rome, it could end up being replaced by Celtic in the West, Phoenician (Punic) in the South-West, and Hellenic in the South-East.

If you somehow get an Etruscan city-state to usurp Rome's OTL position, that's of course even more interesting.

I like the idea

. Or increase economical exchanges between Iberians and Greeks and/or Phoenicians, allowing Iberian to remain a living language.

Lalli · Mar 7, 2020

Romance languages are easiest to butterfly away. Just avoid rise of Roman Empire (Etruscans win in Veji, Gauls destroy Rome so badly that it can't rise anymore or Carthagians win First or Second Punic War). So you get either Etruscan/Greek or Celtic-Greek Italy and Celtic Western Europe and Britain. Iberia would be even more diversed. Punic in OTL Andalusia, Basque in North and Celts in center.

There is probably way avoid Slavic espansion to East and so make Finno-Ugric languages dominant between Baltic Sea and Ural. Perhaps you can get Finno-Ugric dominant group in Scandinavia. Whole OTL Sweden and Norway is probably quiet implausible but perhaps most of the countries.

Fabius Maximus · Mar 7, 2020

Analytical Engine said:
Maybe the Roman Empire expands even further north, assimilating much of western and southern Germany to the point that they speak Romance languages instead of Germanic ones? Meanwhile, if you wank the Slavs (and Balts), that could keep the remaining Germanic speakers hemmed in.

Rome winning at Teutoberg (Teutoburg? I can never remember...) would be a good start. Potentially the Germanic languages would end up confined to OTL's Scandinavia.

ramones1986 · Mar 9, 2020

Pannonia is the westernmost extension of the Eurasian steppe, so I thought of either Yeniseian, Chukutko-Kamchatkan or even Mongolic as the dominant language of the said region, although it needs a prehistoric PoD for the former two (e.g. early adaptation of reindeer herding, taiga grove type of agriculture, semi-nomadic lifestyle).

Same scenario as well in the Finnic peninsula (Finland-Karelia-Kola) as well...

PS:
Is this passable (and plausible) enough for this thread?

Madeleine Birchfield · Mar 9, 2020

Neapolis pulls off a Rome and you have Hellenic-derived languages instead of Romance languages.

vuun · Mar 9, 2020

How about having the Basques establish an empire and spread their language through Western Europe, which then diverges into a full-fledged family like Romance languages?

Silver01 · Mar 9, 2020

1) romance , have rome not exist or fall during the second punic war so that only italy speaks a romance language

2) have the huns not exist and not invade the roman empire , thus slowing down the east german migrations and not leaving a power gap where the slavs take eastern europe

I have no clue about germanic tho

BavarianPhysicist · Mar 9, 2020

Butterflying Slavic into a small language family like the Albanian or into not existing separately outside of Baltic at all, should be easier.

Baltic is said to have originated from the Northern dialects of the Proto-Balto-Slavic(PBS hence forth) and Slavic is said to have originated from the Southern Dialects of the PBS.

However, the Southern dialect region has easier migration pathways into Balkans and Russia/Ukraine. Northern Dialect region was surrounded by forested regions. However, if we let that play out against the Slavic family, the family could become as small as Albanian or not exist outside of Baltic, at all, we could strengthen Goths, Byzantines, Hungarians and the Scythians.

These people could migrate into and settle the OTL Slavic regions of Southern and Eastern Europe, effectively butterflying Slavic family existing outside of the Baltic language family or have it exist as a small language family.