Challenge: Nazi Government survives deafeat

[Kneze]

Try to pull this scenario off. The Nazis lose WWII but have small to medium plot of land under there firm control by the time the war ends, similar to the ROC government in Taiwan.

 

[Admiral Canaris]

Impossible, since everyone was after their blood. But if we assume ASBs, we can let them have Norway, where they still had a strong garrison by the end of the war.

 

[Agentdark]

I've seen some interesting scenarios involving Norway and Denmark as a surviving Nazi garrison state

 

[Wozza]

In actual fact Admiral Doenitz remained responsible for the government of the small strip of northern Germany remaining unoccupied for a full 2 weeks after the surrender.

 

[Admiral Canaris]

If we make an honest try for something that's unlikely, but at least vaguely possible:

*Ike sabotages the American advance. The Russians push deeper into Europe, making the Americans more afraid of them faster. They also take Finland.

*The Nazis manage to build workable atomics, and detonate one in the North Sea after first notifying the Allies so they can send observers. This proves both their ability to defend themselves and their willingness to negotiate, since they did not target the weapon at Allied forces or civilians, but instead provided a friendly demonstration.

*The government is taken over by some reasonably reasonable figure the Allies don't have to hate on sight. Speer comes to mind, or one of the Generals; any better ideas? Perhaps even Göring by a stretch?

*The Germans drop everything else and concentrate on fortifying Norway, at the same time preparing to negotiate.

If they play it really smart, they could then combine their impregnability and relative legitimacy with the threat of the Communists. That might possibly be enough for the Allies to leave them alone...

But they'll be viewed with hatred at home for deserting the Fatherland...

 

[bouscher]

I thought of another way...What if the German army had it's so called "wonder weapons" and I'm not referring to the V1's and V2's but for the "Hanubuos (not sure if this is how you write this) and Vrils, both model series' of flying saucer like objects who together with more modern tanks could have helped the Germans hold off any serious offensives...But this would have happened only if the war would have lasted for a couple more months or so...

 

[karl2025]

If the Germans were somehow able to resist the Normandy invasion it would be a while before the Americans tried something like that again, leaving the Germans with control over France for at least a while more. As the Soviets enter in from the East, they'd take Berlin and I don't think Hitler would have ever left the city, caught up in his imagination of invincibleness.

If the next leader were to surrender, the amount of territory the Germans control and the still active military the Germans have in France and other western territory might give the allies pause. The allied countries would have to be given back, and Germany would certianly lose some of its land, but may stay in one peace with a Nazi government.

But I'm stretching here.

 

[Michele]

If the Germans were somehow able to resist the Normandy invasion it would be a while before the Americans tried something like that again,

I doubt that, considering that they had Dragoon landing in Southern France 5 weeks later. Even assuming Overlord has already been mopped up by the Germans, this will have come at a very high cost to them, so Dragoon faces even less opposition.

 

[karl2025]

I doubt that, considering that they had Dragoon landing in Southern France 5 weeks later. Even assuming Overlord has already been mopped up by the Germans, this will have come at a very high cost to them, so Dragoon faces even less opposition.

Yeah, I don't think it's likely, but I think it's the best chance they'd have. If Overlord is soundly defeated, with 100,000 soldiers and the northern front lost, would the Americans be so willing to launch another southern amphibious assault?

 

[zoomar]

It would take ASBs or the Race to have WW2 end with the National Socialist party in control anywhere. By 1942 at the latest, the fate of the Nazis was entirely in the hands of Churchill, Stalin, and Roosevelt, and nothing the Germans could have done would allow Nazism to survive as a ruling authority anywhere in Europe, even if they get Nukes in 1944.

Now hidden atomic cities under the ice in Antarctica by way of Argentina might work!

 

[stevep]

Yeah, I don't think it's likely, but I think it's the best chance they'd have. If Overlord is soundly defeated, with 100,000 soldiers and the northern front lost, would the Americans be so willing to launch another southern amphibious assault?

karl2025

I doubt the allies would cancel it at that late stage, especially since unless overlord is defeated almost immediately Dragoon would be seen as a chance to rescue the situation in the north. There was no overlap on forces between the two operations. Initially the plan was for the two to occur simultaneously but the landings in the south got a bit delayed.

If they did decide to cancel the Dragoon landings because Overlord went down the pan very quickly then the troops would probably very quickly be used in Italy. This would possibly enable faster advancements there, especially since it would be the only show in town so to speak.

Steve

 

[Derek Jackson]

Well if one imagines luck going in different directions in May 1940 and the Germans are first fought to a standstill and then driven back.

I guess one has to find away of having a Nazi leader who is not Hitler but imaginably a peace could be agreed consisting of the Nazis just going back to their Pre Munich boundaries.