Challenge: Medieval Batman

[Augenis]

Your challenge is to have a prominent medieval nobleman moonlight as a crusader for law and justice using an alias, helping the poor and protecting people from villains and so forth. He has to have all of Batman's accoutrements: high tech equipment for his time, strong armor, disguise, secret lair, and so forth. Needless to say, he has to be very wealthy to develop all of this tech. He will never kill, just like the character.

His identity is kept secret: presumably he does something to make sure it doesn't leak out. You can probably assume he's doing this with the permission of the local lord (if he is not that person himself). He can have associates as well (like OTL Robin) whose identities are also kept secret, but the fewer associates the less chance of a breach.

Politically, this man could favor the aristocrats as a nobleman but make sure that poor get their fair share by protecting them using his alter ego. You don't want the other aristocrats to realize you're preventing them from oppressing their peasants.

The most obvious example is a young Leonardo da Vinci. Can he do it based on the inventions he's made? Anyone else?

Murad IV of the Ottoman Empire supposedly wandered the streets of Constantinople in disguise at night, in search of people breaking his coffee and alcohol ban, and murdered them personally.

I guess he's more of a... Red Hood than a Batman though, lol.

 

[Tanc49]

A noble wouldn't really need to dress up to fight the system in the Middle Ages as, in many instances, he's the one giving the land and the justice.
So he can dress up but really, he is the system, in a legal sense

 

[Ivan Lupo]

It could be a wealthy urban merchant or banker, possibly from a low nobility family or urban patrician family. Which sounds a lot like Ezio Auditore da Firenze. The free city-states like Venice, Genoa, Hamburg, for example would be good settings.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's a DC Elseworld that has this premise. I think it's also been mentioned plenty of times that his family is descended from Scottish Norman nobility or something.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Problem is Batman's "no kill" rule. Would a medieval nobleman be able to endorse such a stance? Because then he runs into the same problem that Jason Todd accuses Bruce of "better yet, why don't you fix the revolving door on Arkham/Blackgate?"

 

[WanderingWanderer]

I think it's also been mentioned plenty of times that his family is descended from Scottish Norman nobility or something.

Yes, I think the family name was originally "De Weyne". Also Bruce Wayne himself is partially named from Robert the Bruce, Scotland's king who won the Battle of Bannockburn but I forget who came up with that idea, Bob Kane or Bill Finger.

Problem is Batman's "no kill" rule. Would a medieval nobleman be able to endorse such a stance?

Nah, the problem is that Batman's "no kill" rule is the sort of nonsense that can only exist in comic books and PG-13 movies. Apparently being beaten to a pulp (which usually includes massive trauma to the head) is all harmless, everyone gets to the hospital on time. This would not work in the real world, Batman beating the **** out of some criminal mook (you can see many examples by "Battison" in the latest live action Batman movie) will easily result in the sort of injuries that lead to death, more so in a medieval setting. If you want a Batman-type character to exist in the real world (regardless of the era), you need to have a major revamp of his modus operandi because a "no kill" rule cannot exist alongside "punch criminals repeatedly" approach to crime fighting.

Murad IV of the Ottoman Empire supposedly wandered the streets of Constantinople in disguise at night, in search of people breaking his coffee and alcohol ban, and murdered them personally.

I guess he's more of a... Red Hood than a Batman though, lol.

Common legend among Muslim leaders. The second caliph after Prophet Muhammad's death, Umar supposedly does that sort of thing, going around in disguise. And I think you can find examples among other cultures, eg. Nero supposedly dressed in costume and wandered the streets of Rome at night, but not for crime fighting but for some fun with his groupies. Heck you also have Shakespeare's "Henry V" with the titular king going by the "disguise" of "Harry Le Roy" (this is more like Superman putting on glasses as Clark Kent).

 

[Lord High Executioner]

That's just Robin Hood

Robin Hood didn't become a nobleman until a few centuries in.

 

[Droman]

It could be a wealthy urban merchant or banker, possibly from a low nobility family or urban patrician family. Which sounds a lot like Ezio Auditore da Firenze.

I've always been mildly curious about how someone like Ezio would have been discussed as a historical figure, removed from the Assassin-Templar paradigm.

"So this guy survived an assassination attempt that took out a lot of his family, took to the countryside with his remaining familial allies, rebuilt his powerbase, murdered all his enemies, and then went so far as to murder the Pope in Rome?"

 

[omnidirectional]

How do you get the Medieval Rogue's Gallery?

Joker - Pretty easy. Disgruntled royal jester.

Harley Quin - Say, princess who fell in love with evil jester.

Riddler - Early novelist or university educated writer frustrated the peasants are too uneducated and superstitious to get his cleverness. Turns out to be Chaucer or Shakespeare.

Bane - A powerful Crusading knight who was injured fighting the Saracens and now wears an iron mask, but is still physically hulking and powerful.

Two Face - a Sheriff or lord who was disfigured on one side of his face and it made him go mad and turn against the King.

Poison Ivy - A nun who thinks humanity is still too sinful and wants to wipe it out to return Earth to the Garden of Eden. Spreads the Black Plague.

Catwoman - A tavern wench who robs the noblemen who sleep with her after learning their secrets.

Penguin - Fat corrupt local innkeeper and crime boss who robs traveler, but acts as if he were a nobleman.

Ra'as Al Ghul - Head of the Hashasin Order in the Middle East. "Medieval Batman" spent time with him in Alamut during the Crusades.

Talia Al Ghul -See above.

Scarecrow - A peasant farmer who hates his lord, who discovered how to make ergot hallucinogens and uses them to drive nobles mad with hallucinations in their food.

KGBeast - A Mongol horde general, closest medieval equivalent.

King Tut - A Fatimid Egyptian Caliph who lost his mind when the Crusaders slain his son outside Jerusalem. Went apostate and embraced the ancient Egyptian religion, but was deposed by his Muslim subjects and became a fugitive.

Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni - Feuding Italian city state leaders ala the Borgias and Medicis.

"Why art thou so serious?"

 

[Sol Zagato]

Why art thou so serious

Why art thou so grave?

 

[ArtosStark]

Part of the problem of having this guy as a nobleman is that if he wants to do good for the people he could actually be much more useful leveraging his day job than beating up people at night. Though, to be fair, the same argument applies to Batman.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Killer Croc - the dragon version of whatever Grendel is

 

[acgoldis]

Part of the problem of having this guy as a nobleman is that if he wants to do good for the people he could actually be much more useful leveraging his day job than beating up people at night. Though, to be fair, the same argument applies to Batman.

He appeases the aristocrats as his day job in the palace and beats up on the aristocrats' thugs in disguise when they try to abuse the peasants. Everyone wins.

 

[ArtosStark]

He appeases the aristocrats as his day job in the palace and beats up on the aristocrats' thugs in disguise when they try to abuse the peasants. Everyone wins.

1. This is a pretty non-nuanced view of the aristocracy. What is it exactly you expect them to be doing to everyone else?
2. Do “aristocrat’s thugs” include the local tax collection machinery and guardsmen? Because Aristocrats are unlikely to hire footpads when they have access to the machinery of state. That means your hypothetical vigilantly is beating up the equivalent of police and civil servants. It’s a little more of an ambiguous look.
3. If the guy has the same level of power and influence in his home areas as Batman does in Gotham he can probably do much more good by either supporting the non-corrupt enforcement of pre-existing laws or pushing for changes to law that benefit the lower classes more. He is going to help way more people that ways than he is by beating some guys up in the street.

 

[Sol Zagato]

1. This is a pretty non-nuanced view of the aristocracy. What is it exactly you expect them to be doing to everyone else?
2. Do “aristocrat’s thugs” include the local tax collection machinery and guardsmen? Because Aristocrats are unlikely to hire footpads when they have access to the machinery of state. That means your hypothetical vigilantly is beating up the equivalent of police and civil servants. It’s a little more of an ambiguous look.
3. If the guy has the same level of power and influence in his home areas as Batman does in Gotham he can probably do much more good by either supporting the non-corrupt enforcement of pre-existing laws or pushing for changes to law that benefit the lower classes more. He is going to help way more people that ways than he is by beating some guys up in the street.

Nobility pretty often had illegitimate side business.

 

[ArtosStark]

Nobility pretty often had illegitimate side business.

Illegitimate as in not paying taxes to their liege on it or illegitimate as in extorting the local populace (for some reason).

Any examples you could provide to help explain?

 

[Sol Zagato]

Illegitimate as in not paying taxes to their liege on it or illegitimate as in extorting the local populace (for some reason).

Any examples you could provide to help explain?

Smuggling, robbing their neighbors' peasants, robbing merchants, operating secret mines, bullshit lawsuits that are also simultaneously private wars (HRE thing) etc.

It's the privileges of aristocracy that makes their criminal activities easier.

 

[ArtosStark]

Smuggling, robbing their neighbors' peasants, robbing merchants, operating secret mines, bullshit lawsuits that are also simultaneously private wars (HRE thing) etc.

Ok, so let’s say there is enough of this in one area for the Medieval Batman to want to create a persona to deal with it.

1. Robbing peasants (especially on your neighbors land) is banditry. If MB wants to stop that he could join the neighbors court for a while to help them deal with it or finance a company of mercenaries to deal with the bandits. Costume not necessary and probably less effective.

2. A secret mine is probably more about cheating their liege out of tax than abusing the locals (though that may happen too). But how on earth is MB going to stop a secret mine easier as a masked vigilante than he would by sending a letter to the next highest ruler. Kings (or equivalent) are much more likely to shut that kind of thing down because they are not getting paid than the lord is because some of his miners (quite possibly peasants themselves) got beat up.

3. A lawsuit that is also a private war is well beyond the ability of a masked man to deal with at night. That’s more a job for a guy with influence and the wealth to buy and army of his own.

 

[Falecius]

I joked once while teaching that Harun al-Rashid, as depicted in the Arabian Nights, was basically Batman (a powerful individual prowling the city at night in disguise to redress wrongs). He never actually fights, though, and, of course, it's fictional.

 

[DAv]

Part of the problem of having this guy as a nobleman is that if he wants to do good for the people he could actually be much more useful leveraging his day job than beating up people at night. Though, to be fair, the same argument applies to Batman.

Bruce Wayne does do plenty of the former, it's just that Gotham needs to be a chaotic mess from a narrative standpoint in order for there to be a Batman, so the long term effects aren't allowed to show.

 

[cortz#9]

How do you get the Medieval Rogue's Gallery?

Joker - Pretty easy. Disgruntled royal jester.

Harley Quin - Say, princess who fell in love with evil jester.

Riddler - Early novelist or university educated writer frustrated the peasants are too uneducated and superstitious to get his cleverness. Turns out to be Chaucer or Shakespeare.

Bane - A powerful Crusading knight who was injured fighting the Saracens and now wears an iron mask, but is still physically hulking and powerful.

Two Face - a Sheriff or lord who was disfigured on one side of his face and it made him go mad and turn against the King.

Poison Ivy - A nun who thinks humanity is still too sinful and wants to wipe it out to return Earth to the Garden of Eden. Spreads the Black Plague.

Catwoman - A tavern wench who robs the noblemen who sleep with her after learning their secrets.

Penguin - Fat corrupt local innkeeper and crime boss who robs traveler, but acts as if he were a nobleman.

Ra'as Al Ghul - Head of the Hashasin Order in the Middle East. "Medieval Batman" spent time with him in Alamut during the Crusades.

Talia Al Ghul -See above.

Scarecrow - A peasant farmer who hates his lord, who discovered how to make ergot hallucinogens and uses them to drive nobles mad with hallucinations in their food.

KGBeast - A Mongol horde general, closest medieval equivalent.

King Tut - A Fatimid Egyptian Caliph who lost his mind when the Crusaders slain his son outside Jerusalem. Went apostate and embraced the ancient Egyptian religion, but was deposed by his Muslim subjects and became a fugitive.

Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni - Feuding Italian city state leaders ala the Borgias and Medicis.

"Why art thou so serious?"

Good list but I think the Penguin would probably go by another name here, did they know about penguins back then?