Challenge: make MiniDisc a viable proposition

Despite having been around for some time, MiniDisc has never really enjoyed a huge degree of success, with the advent of the CD-R, CD-RW, the MP3 and digital file format players. So what changes are necessary to make it suceed and become the dominant music format, or at least cassette replacement, at some point?
 
In my Apartheid TL, I'm planning on Mini-Discs being more successful than in OTL.

I haven't seen an MD in years, though. Could they be played in computer CD-ROM drives or in conventional CD players? If they weren't, making this possible would make them more successful.
 
In my Apartheid TL, I'm planning on Mini-Discs being more successful than in OTL.

I haven't seen an MD in years, though. Could they be played in computer CD-ROM drives or in conventional CD players? If they weren't, making this possible would make them more successful.

There apparently (according to Wikipedia, of course ;)) was a variant called MD Data, but apparently it had problems writing to ordinary audio MDs. I suppose if this problem did not exist, it might be one less drawback. (Apparently the newer Hi-MDs do not have this problem.) I think for them to be successful, it seems one might need to get rid of the ZIP discs as well, or at least delay them or make them less successful.
 
Ahem.

Anyway there are a variety of problems, but also solutions. DAT beating MD in the pro audio area. MD albums that weren't CD quality. MD not being seen as a cassette tape or computer disk replacement. CD-R/RW. MD-Data being late and not workable with MD-Audio.

(And no, MerryPrankster, MDs could not be played in CD drives. They were a) two-thirds the size, and b) encased in plastic. In a different timeline a solution might well be found.)


The way I'm planning on my timeline goes something like this:

At some point Sony kills DAT because of low sales. They are also somewhat smarter and more forward looking and do not get involved in the movie or record label business (in my timeline this stems from a rather different 1980s Japan).

CD-R/CD-RW talks break down between Philips & Sony as Sony pushes the CD-MO. Both companies basically decide to say "screw it" and CD-R/RW is delayed. (We could even break down CD-ROM talks in '85, to further boost the Minidisc.)

Because of the R/RW breakdown Sony pushes harder on their Minidisc, making it a blank "data" style disc from the beginning—with an ATL version of ATRAC identified as a special "music" version, for audio players.

To that end they decide against pushing Minidisc albums in favour of marketing it as a cassette tape & computer disk/diskette replacement as well as aiming for the pro audio market that was using DAT.

MD Decks therefore are designed in various flavours: combo MD/CD deck for recording which can also hook up to computers; a standalone MD Deck for computers; a portable MD Walkman for play only; a portable-ish MD Walkman Deck that can record and can be hooked up to a computer.

Perhaps a deal with Apple (Sony was on good terms with them in the early '90s) gets MD-Decks widespread in America.


The lack of CD-R/RW means Minidiscs are very successful on the computer front replacing disks/diskettes, and their success there prevents Zip from entering the market. (If you kill/weaken CD-ROM, then they're super-successful.)

Meanwhile Sony works harder on compression and making video-MDs workable as well as improved ATRAC for audio extends the versatility of MD. Coupled with Minidisc-II around 1996 (in my timeline Nintendo uses it for their N64 analogue) with 700 MB of space, CDs begin to fade except as albums and legacy systems.

You could probably develop a CD/MD combo drive at some point as well.


Probably by 2001 or so there comes along HD-MD with a few GB of capacity coupled with the faster development of video compression technology they're probably as good as DVDs.

Popularity of MD probably kills portable hard drives, but flash drives will still eventually win over MD.

I imagine the late arrival of the HD-MD (DVD analogue) kills any further blu-ray comparable format, I don't know what that does to the idea of high definition in general. Might limit it to television broadcasts or make 480p popular earlier thus pushing back 1080p (let's just skip 720p & 1080i) until 2010 or so.
 

NomadicSky

Banned
I love the MiniDisk that plastic casing they have could have been made larger and should have been used for CD and DVD's.
 
It's a good idea in theory. MDs should've been more durable than CDs, with roughly the same capacity. I thought licensing had a huge impact, since Sony wanted to control the format. ATRAC needs to go, IMO.

Also, the medium is/was pretty expensive. Make that cheaper.
 
It's a good idea in theory. MDs should've been more durable than CDs, with roughly the same capacity. I thought licensing had a huge impact, since Sony wanted to control the format. ATRAC needs to go, IMO.

Also, the medium is/was pretty expensive. Make that cheaper.

MiniDiscs didn't hit CD capacity until MD-Data2 with 650 MB in '97. The original MD maxed out at 177 MB, improved to 305 MB if original MDs used Hi-MD mode starting in '04. It was the other features that mattered. (Basically all the features of the Hi-MD need to start with the original MD.)

As for Sony, they learned their lesson from Betamax: MiniDisc was widely and easily licensed.

ATRAC was simply an audio compression scheme (MP3 wasn't approved until 1991, and Sony began work on MiniDisc/ATRAC before that). Actually its degradation of sound caused MiniDisc albums to fail, before ATRAC was improved later and MiniDisc gained the ability to simply play regular CD audio files. However the limitations in transferring ATRAC files and manipulating them is mostly due to Sony owning a record label.
 
IIRC, in Whitley Streiber's book, "War-Day," there was a lot of talk of portable players using mini-discs. The POD was a limited nuclear war between the US/USSR in 1988.
 
Librarians would have loved it. Since audio cassette books were replaced with audio CD's, you have the problem of one disc getting damaged and the whole set must be scrapped. A cassette with a damaged section of tape can be re-spliced with the loss on a word or two. With the MiniDisc, you do not touch the media.
 
Here are a few thoughts:

- No DCC by Philips and sharing the technology, possible Philips and Sony are long term partners.

- Embracing downloads earlier.

- Space on Md's needs to be increased sooner

Regards,
Rhysz
 
IIRC, in Whitley Streiber's book, "War-Day," there was a lot of talk of portable players using mini-discs. The POD was a limited nuclear war between the US/USSR in 1988.

Yeah, that would do it. Japan would have the most advanced remaining technical base (particularly in consumer electronics) and '88 would delay stuff like CD-R/RW long enough for MiniDiscs to become entrenched.

Plus simple considerations like toughness of media would naturally lead one away from fragile CDs.

Here are a few thoughts:

- No DCC by Philips and sharing the technology, possible Philips and Sony are long term partners.

- Embracing downloads earlier.

- Space on Md's needs to be increased sooner

As with killing DAT, killing DCC would help. The problem with Philips and Sony being partners centres on the CD-R/RW which would probably need to die in order for MiniDiscs to replace diskettes and thus achieve widespread popularity. However, one could imagine a falling out, and then reconciliation.

MiniDisc ran into problems long before downloads became popular. If you mean data MiniDiscs, so as to replace diskettes, then yes. Ideally MD-Data and regular MiniDiscs would start as a uniform standard.

Eh. They increased to 650 MB (matching CDs) by '97 (MD-Data2) and theoretically at least original MiniDiscs could have come out at 305 MB. I don't know how different Data MDs were from original MDs, so perhaps that 650 MB in '97 could be increased somewhat. I do know Hi-MD was a complete reworking (although backward compatible) of the MD format.

How did Sony increase capacity on the existing Minidisc to 305MB?

minidisc.org said:
The way data bits are encoded into bits on the disk (the modulation system) was changed from EFM ("Eight to Fourteen Modulation", the Compact Disc's method) to the more efficient RLL1,7 (typical of hard drives).

The readout electronics were changed from a simple peak detector to a more sophisticated Partial Response Maximum Likelihood ("PRML") system that essentially uses digital signal processing techniques to extract the disk data signal from inter-symbol noise, allowing bits to be packed closer together.

The error correction system and "sector structure" were changed to increase data packing efficiency to 80% (Sony doesn't mention what these changes were however).

Changes #1 and #2 brought a factor of 1.38x, #3 brought 1.48x, for a total of 2.04x.
 
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Yeah, that would do it. Japan would have the most advanced remaining technical base (particularly in consumer electronics) and '88 would delay stuff like CD-R/RW long enough for MiniDiscs to become entrenched.

Plus simple considerations like toughness of media would naturally lead one away from fragile CDs.



As with killing DAT, killing DCC would help. The problem with Philips and Sony being partners centres on the CD-R/RW which would probably need to die in order for MiniDiscs to replace diskettes and thus achieve widespread popularity. However, one could imagine a falling out, and then reconciliation.

MiniDisc ran into problems long before downloads became popular. If you mean data MiniDiscs, so as to replace diskettes, then yes. Ideally MD-Data and regular MiniDiscs would start as a uniform standard.

Eh. They increased to 650 MB (matching CDs) by '97 (MD-Data2) and theoretically at least original MiniDiscs could have come out at 305 MB. I don't know how different Data MDs were from original MDs, so perhaps that 650 MB in '97 could be increased somewhat. I do know Hi-MD was a complete reworking (although backward compatible) of the MD format.

How did Sony increase capacity on the existing Minidisc to 305MB?

Looks completely correct to me. Cheers!

Regards,
Rhysz
 
Mini-timeline:

POD: Taiyo Yuden fails to develop a method that makes CD-R compatible with CD-ROM or Audio CD, causing Sony-Phillips to abandon it.

Some work is done on CD-MO and CD-E (i.e. CD-RW) technology but in 1988 it's simply too early, and the project is put aside.

Random butterflies result in the RIAA being slightly more successful in lobbying against the DAT format. Sony decides this is more trouble than it's worth, and pulls back to build its own lobby network. As a result they do not buy CBS Records.

Philips, accepting that they can't make CD-R work with regular CD-ROM/Audio work together with Sony on their MiniDisc project (based partially on the CD-MO). As a result of the DAT fall-out Sony works to make the MiniDisc able to record in a lossless format.

The MD, then, is designed with three design goals: lossless recording for professionals, rewritable to replace diskettes, and with a music compression system to compete with portable CD players.

As a result the designers pattern the MD more on a hard disk than the CD, resulting in the original MD format being released with a capacity of 260 MB (instead of 177 MB, OTL) which works out to either 115 minutes compressed (ATRAC), or 30 minutes lossless audio[1].

ATL ATRAC is somewhat better due to more resources thrown at it. Original ATRAC at 292 kbit/s was below "CD quality", the ATL version is comparable to CD quality. ("CD quality" simply meaning whether the average listener notices the difference. IOTL they did, in the ATL they do not.)

This results in a design similar to, although less advanced than, the Hi-MD, allowing data, audio (lossless or ATRAC in a special area so that non-computer players can read them), faster than realtime encoding/transfer, linear PCM recording & ATRAC recording

MiniDisc is released initially by Sony in 1991, with the new Walkman-MD, the MD Deck (for home use, also attaches to a computer), the MD/CD Deck (to rip CDs onto MDs; also attaches to a computer), and finally the Walkman MD-Recorder (duh, it records).

Panasonic, Sharp, Philips et al soon release competing products and everybody expands MD into other systems (cars, home audio, boomboxes, etc…).

Sony enters into talks with a number of computer makers, and MD is soon found on the Mac, Amiga, FM Towns, and IBM PC clones as well as the SNES MD[2]. By replacing the diskette MDs purpose is clearer to consumers than OTL, and is thus more widely embraced.

Sony applies their audio expertise to computers, releasing the Sony CyberDeck for audio professionals—it comes with a CD and MD drive and uses the Fujitsu FM Towns operating system (think Japanese Amiga-analogue).


By the mid 1990s portable MD players have mostly supplanted portable CD players, MD/CD Decks of various sorts are common for home audio (so as to transfer CD music onto MDs), MD Decks in computers are common, and the new Ultra Nintendo is coming out with a MD drive instead of CD-ROM or cartridge.

Zip never had a market opening, DCC was killed as Philips remained a Sony ally, and DAT never got far resulting in professional audio relying on MD recorders.

CDs remained the king of albums but lost ground on the computer front and the new MiniDisc-II, with 780 MB of capacity (released in 1996, backward & forward compatible[3]) is Sony-Philips answer to CD Audio, Video CDs, and CD-ROM.

I don't know what happens with DVDs with the lesser success of CDs. Perhaps an early 2000s introduction of an MD able to hold a couple GB but using quality video compression to achieve a 480p picture. This could delay HD, but result in the spread of 480p. Thus HD and HD-MD might be delayed until 2010 or so, resulting in uniform 1080p standards and a slightly later (in the USA) ending of analogue television transmission.



[1] I can't seem to find an easy "when was this lossless audio compression scheme released" source, but it appears that Shorten (SHORTEN) was around as early as 1994 although it wasn't as good as FLAC. Sony licensing that would give MD 50-70 minutes of near-identical to lossless audio quite early on.

[2] ITTL Nintendo talks to Sony instead of flipping out (because, why not?), and they agree both on a fairer deal for Nintendo and switching to the MD format. The Super Nintendo MiniDisc System has an attach rate similar to NEC's CD attachment for the PC Engine, and as such isn't terribly successful. It will however result in a Sony/Nintendo collaboration on the Ultra Nintendo (née N64) hardware including a MiniDisc-II drive.

[3] Forward compatibility requires formatting roughly half of the the MD-IIs storage space as an "MD" area, dropping capacity to one 260 MB original MD area and one 390 MB MD-II area.
 
[2] ITTL Nintendo talks to Sony instead of flipping out (because, why not?), and they agree both on a fairer deal for Nintendo and switching to the MD format. The Super Nintendo MiniDisc System has an attach rate similar to NEC's CD attachment for the PC Engine, and as such isn't terribly successful. It will however result in a Sony/Nintendo collaboration on the Ultra Nintendo (née N64) hardware including a MiniDisc-II drive.
An excuse for why Nintendo may be more open to Sony here is that if Sony and Philips remain allied, Nintendo may not be able to play the two against each other as they did in OTL... this would have the possible side-effect of killing off the CD-i, or at least making sure the Nintendo-character games for that system never existed (always a plus, I say :p )
 
An excuse for why Nintendo may be more open to Sony here is that if Sony and Philips remain allied, Nintendo may not be able to play the two against each other as they did in OTL... this would have the possible side-effect of killing off the CD-i, or at least making sure the Nintendo-character games for that system never existed (always a plus, I say :p )

There's still Panasonic. Fujitsu made their FM Towns system with a standard CD-ROM drive, and even released it as a game console (the FM Towns Marty). NEC, Sharp, etc… if Nintendo is pissed at Sony and can't go to Philips they still have options.

But yeah, I imagine the CD-i is (thankfully) gone.

Librarians would have loved it. Since audio cassette books were replaced with audio CD's, you have the problem of one disc getting damaged and the whole set must be scrapped. A cassette with a damaged section of tape can be re-spliced with the loss on a word or two. With the MiniDisc, you do not touch the media.

The Sony CyberDeck proves very popular with libraries, who can buy one copy of an album on CD and transfer it to multiple far more durable MiniDiscs.

This also introduces the FM Towns OS to America, where it never really catches on in the face of Windows/Amiga/Mac but it does mean libraries bring in graphical operating systems earlier than OTL[1].

The idea of libraries having "multimedia" computers is thus around in the early '90s, when most home computers (unless one had an Amiga) were far more limited in that regard.


[1] As a personal note most libraries in Toronto (the biggest library system in North America) continued to use what I imagine was DOS or Unix for their library access terminals until the mid to late '90s.
 
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