Make the Russian colonies in Northwestern America last as long as you can think plausible, make sure to go through relations with other countries as they do this.
Challenge: Lasting Russian Colonies in America
- Thread starter Pantsbucket
- Start date
From what I've gathered in the other threads on this subject is the big problem with Russia holding even Alaska is they already have their own large and sparsely inhabited frontier of Siberia. And It's not only in the way, but also supplies many of the resources that are easily drawable from North America. It just wasn't worth the cost in the long term. IMO about the only way it could hold onto some territory is whatever powers happen to rise in North America are too distracted to bother with Russian claims, and also don't wish to see their opponents get their hands on them either.
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Actually, as long as they can provide for their own colonists in terms of food before the deal with the HBC, they're good. In parts Siberia it was easily possible to do both, in Alaska not so much.
1. They need some land to grow food (Fort Ross was basically all about that, but almost anywhere on the West Coast starting with Vancouver Island would do).
2. They need workers. This is expensive and all but not too crazy. All that needs to happen is the government to stop blocking export of Russian peasant families by the RAC and the Navy, or allow the RAC to import other European settlers instead - or even Chinese via the Canton trade that they did anyway.
Once they have 1 and 2, there's lots to do. They were aware of mineral deposits in Alaska, for example, and tired to diversify away from furs unsuccessfully.
Other things that might really help:
1. An earlier naval harbour on the Russian Pacific coast
2. Discovering gold (the more people there are the more likely this becomes)
If they manage to park a frigate or two on station by say 1800, they are in good shape until America gets strong enough to muscle them out. But depending on the POD there's lots of ways of butterflying early American Pacific presence.
1. They need some land to grow food (Fort Ross was basically all about that, but almost anywhere on the West Coast starting with Vancouver Island would do).
2. They need workers. This is expensive and all but not too crazy. All that needs to happen is the government to stop blocking export of Russian peasant families by the RAC and the Navy, or allow the RAC to import other European settlers instead - or even Chinese via the Canton trade that they did anyway.
Once they have 1 and 2, there's lots to do. They were aware of mineral deposits in Alaska, for example, and tired to diversify away from furs unsuccessfully.
Other things that might really help:
1. An earlier naval harbour on the Russian Pacific coast
2. Discovering gold (the more people there are the more likely this becomes)
If they manage to park a frigate or two on station by say 1800, they are in good shape until America gets strong enough to muscle them out. But depending on the POD there's lots of ways of butterflying early American Pacific presence.
My favorite POD for long-lasting Russian colonies was always "enhanced exploration of Siberia, particularly the Arctic coast" (ranging from the relevant trade route not being forbidden in 1619 to Dezhnev just straight up discovering Alaska in 1648 - the latter is probably ASB though). If they manage to get there in the 17th century (which almost definitely also means focusing more on sea-based travel - IOTL land routes for most of the places took over pretty early), by the 18th they're likely have a decent-sized colony, and when complications came up in the 19th it might well be too big to swallow (that is if anything even comes up - by this point the Russians might well be perceived as the proper owners of the entire Pacific Northwest equivalent, very possibly having got to most of it before even Spain).
A few years back, when someone proposed a challenge of a Russian colony on the Atlantic coast of North America, I made a borderline-ASB "timeline" where the Russians discover Alaska in the 1630s, meet HBC guys at Fort Nelson in the 1660s, continue on through the Arctic and end up in Labrador by 1700. I asserted that this is the least ASB way for the Russians to get such a colony, and definitely less ASB than the hoops one need to pass for any Russian activity in the Atlantic
A few years back, when someone proposed a challenge of a Russian colony on the Atlantic coast of North America, I made a borderline-ASB "timeline" where the Russians discover Alaska in the 1630s, meet HBC guys at Fort Nelson in the 1660s, continue on through the Arctic and end up in Labrador by 1700. I asserted that this is the least ASB way for the Russians to get such a colony, and definitely less ASB than the hoops one need to pass for any Russian activity in the Atlantic
This is interesting especially if it lasts up until the revolution and Alaska becomes a 'White movement' and doens't get finally defeated by the Bolsheviks. A 1920's Alaska as an independant nation seems interesting to me.
That is a rather interesting scenario. The "whites" holding out as some sort of Duchy or Barony or whatever. Would the Bolsheviks pursue reconquest of "Russian" territory? Would America allow it considering The Monroe Doctrine albeit in Northern America? what role does Alaskas Mineral wealth play in it all. Certainly got me thinking now.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
My favorite POD for long-lasting Russian colonies was always "enhanced exploration of Siberia, particularly the Arctic coast" (ranging from the relevant trade route not being forbidden in 1619 to Dezhnev just straight up discovering Alaska in 1648 - the latter is probably ASB though). If they manage to get there in the 17th century (which almost definitely also means focusing more on sea-based travel - IOTL land routes for most of the places took over pretty early), by the 18th they're likely have a decent-sized colony, and when complications came up in the 19th it might well be too big to swallow (that is if anything even comes up - by this point the Russians might well be perceived as the proper owners of the entire Pacific Northwest equivalent, very possibly having got to most of it before even Spain).
A few years back, when someone proposed a challenge of a Russian colony on the Atlantic coast of North America, I made a borderline-ASB "timeline" where the Russians discover Alaska in the 1630s, meet HBC guys at Fort Nelson in the 1660s, continue on through the Arctic and end up in Labrador by 1700. I asserted that this is the least ASB way for the Russians to get such a colony, and definitely less ASB than the hoops one need to pass for any Russian activity in the Atlantic
Well a while back katchen (before the banhammer struck him) and I talked about possible agriculture in Alaska and northern BC for my sig TL and he suggested that the colder parts of BC, Yukon and Alaska could have supported an alpine cattle farming (cattle grazing in the foot of the mountains), as well as some crops that could easily be grown in northern BC like corn, or in Alaska itself, quinoa.
Faster development of Arctic sailing techniques would be a key to a faster discovery of the North American coast. Say if Russia's North American colony could reach up to the OTL Columbia River, then its management could be a lot easier.
The Russians were just fine with Arctic sailing techniques pre-1619, and even post-1619 occasionally (um, Dezhnev).
It's just that IOTL they felt land/river trips were easier (the places Dezhnev founded were reached by land like two years later, and the sea route wasn't used much since then - though apparently it did come up occasionally), and didn't try to follow the sea much; it didn't help that, a few decades later, the Little Ice Age came up, and the climate got significantly colder (covering most of the way with ice).
Other than that... possibly the easiest/most obvious POD would've been clearer (and warmer) weather on August 13, 1728, which means Bering doesn't stop just short of Alaska and sees it properly. But that is likely to be too little too late, unfortunately.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
The thing is, my sig TL actually has Russian Alaska in addition to a Russian controlled Hawaii and a Russian controlled Philippines, so Russian Alaska is a biggy here.
Is a 1728 POD really too late for a soldily Russian Alaska? I don't think so, if anything I think it gives any potential author more plausability for a world more similar to our own, with a unique trait...A Two-Russia policy, with a Soviet Old World, and "Empire of All Russias but really just Alaska and parts of Oregon Country" Taiwan type state
Considering that OTL's US was willing to be a part of an invasion of Siberia in an attempt to stop the Bolsheviks, I doubt Russian Alaska would be allowed to go Red.
"The Grand Duchy of Archangel". Has a nice ring to it.
I could see a great deal of American money going into Alaska during the cold war. I mean, the 49 states of the United States of America would probably like to make it a state, but that's just not gonna happen, so they would shove a load of money into the country so that it could have early warning systems installed. American aircraft would probably have bases there. It would be a very important country.