Challenge: Jewish haven in the Wild West

[Strategos' Risk]

Partly inspired by Tony Jone's Clive-less World.

Suppose that a Jewish rabbi gets the notion to create a new Israel in the American west, like what the Mormons did. He gets a great number of immigrants to go with him there, possibly many Jews fleeing persecution from the East Coast.

Where could he settle? And if it's anywhere near Utah, what kind of wacky wars would these 'New Israelites' get into with the Mormons?

 

[David bar Elias]

There was someone named Mordachai Noah, a Democratic and later Whig politician who attempted to establish "Israel" in I think upstate New York...this was in the 1830s....you could have Noah move out into the Dakotas, or into OTL Wyoming (or even Utah... ) and have a more sucessful movement to recruit Jews from the German states, Austria-Hungary, Poland, and Russia (among other locales). Just an idea.

 

[robertp6165]

There was someone named Mordachai Noah, a Democratic and later Whig politician who attempted to establish "Israel" in I think upstate New York...this was in the 1830s....you could have Noah move out into the Dakotas, or into OTL Wyoming (or even Utah... ) and have a more sucessful movement to recruit Jews from the German states, Austria-Hungary, Poland, and Russia (among other locales). Just an idea.

Remembering the failure of the British Uganda Plan, which was rejected when the Jewish delegation sent to check out the proffered lands discovered they were populated by dangerous animals and unwelcoming natives, it is unlikely that the Wild West would have gained much acceptance among Jews as the site of a new "Israel." All the same concerns which lead them to reject Uganda would apply here as well.

 

[Wendell]

There was briefly talk back in the days of FDR that concerned setting up a Jewish homeland in Alaska. Maybe this idea is picked up by individuals, or some organization in the XIXth century?

 

[Michael B]

Remembering the failure of the British Uganda Plan, which was rejected when the Jewish delegation sent to check out the proffered lands discovered they were populated by dangerous animals and unwelcoming natives, it is unlikely that the Wild West would have gained much acceptance among Jews as the site of a new "Israel." All the same concerns which lead them to reject Uganda would apply here as well.

That would certainly eliminate the Great Plains as a destination. However, if you rename it Sinai and the tribes on it Amalakites, Amorites and Moabites then you might be able to sell an Exodus to Oregon/Canaan.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

Remembering the failure of the British Uganda Plan, which was rejected when the Jewish delegation sent to check out the proffered lands discovered they were populated by dangerous animals and unwelcoming natives, it is unlikely that the Wild West would have gained much acceptance among Jews as the site of a new "Israel." All the same concerns which lead them to reject Uganda would apply here as well.

I would think they might have been influenced by the rampant sleeping sickness and malaria in the area as well, it was the reason Africa was called the Dark Continent at the time, since only the blacks were known to be able to survive the diseases there.

Additionally, the Buganda tribe were probably the most powerful left in Africa at the time. Certainly far more powerful than basically remnant Indian populations still recovering from pandemic disease.

And what dangerous animals were native to the Great Plains? Catamounts? Buffalo?

The Great Plains are surely more inviting than the Utah desert. Are the Mormons tougher than the Jews?

 

[Keenir]

There was briefly talk back in the days of FDR that concerned setting up a Jewish homeland in Alaska. Maybe this idea is picked up by individuals, or some organization in the XIXth century?

sounds rather like this: http://www.uchronia.net/bib.cgi/label.html?id=chabyiddis

 

[Darkest]

Mormons moved to the 'Wild West' because of two things:

1) A key facet to their religion was of a 'living Prophet', whose words were inspired by the Lord.
2) The Mormons had a central leader that desired to move to the West.

It seems like the Jews do not have a central religious figurehead. Mormons are taught to love and obey their Prophet, a man who is second only to Jesus Christ. The same devotion to a single man would be hard to mimic in another religion.

So, first change the Jewish religion. Maybe some kind of American Restorationist 'reinterpretation' of the Jewish religion that allows for such a leader? That would be cool.

 

[Dynamitard]

This is a very interesting idea. But I don't know how long a Jewish colony in the wilds of the west would last. I am a Jew, and I know my people aren't exactly the hardy explorer types. We're much better at settling down and becoming lawyers and doctors. You can't have a whole colony of lawyers and doctors.
Mormons fought back when they got persecuted, which is something Jews would never do. We'd probably make jokes about the persecution and say stuff like 'eh, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the world would be blind and toothless."

 

[Strategos' Risk]

[Family Guy]

"What a horrible thing to say! They built the pyramids!"

[/Family Guy]

 

[Dynamitard]

[Family Guy]

"What a horrible thing to say! They built the pyramids!"

[/Family Guy]

Ahem, we were sort of forced too. After that, we decided all physical labor was a waste of time, and that intelectuall stuff was better.

 

[Darkest]

Mormons fought back when they got persecuted, which is something Jews would never do. We'd probably make jokes about the persecution and say stuff like 'eh, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the world would be blind and toothless."

Haha. Yeah, that's another thing we have going for us. We aren't the kind to be walked over. Does anybody know about blood oaths? Its little known, but, in the early history of the Church, by religious law, if someone killed one of your family member's, you had the right to kill the murderer. Just like in the Old Testament.

I love belonging to a fanatical religion!

 

[Shope]

They did go west eventually . . .

. . . From Brooklyn to New Jersey.

 

[Martinus Paduei]

Mormons moved to the 'Wild West' because of two things:

1) A key facet to their religion was of a 'living Prophet', whose words were inspired by the Lord.
2) The Mormons had a central leader that desired to move to the West.

It seems like the Jews do not have a central religious figurehead. Mormons are taught to love and obey their Prophet, a man who is second only to Jesus Christ. The same devotion to a single man would be hard to mimic in another religion.

So, first change the Jewish religion. Maybe some kind of American Restorationist 'reinterpretation' of the Jewish religion that allows for such a leader? That would be cool.

You overlook the Zionist movement. No prophet, and yet the movement, from the nineteenth century through the first half of the twentieth got the 'real' Israel created.

 

[Martinus Paduei]

This is a very interesting idea. But I don't know how long a Jewish colony in the wilds of the west would last. I am a Jew, and I know my people aren't exactly the hardy explorer types. We're much better at settling down and becoming lawyers and doctors. You can't have a whole colony of lawyers and doctors.
Mormons fought back when they got persecuted, which is something Jews would never do. We'd probably make jokes about the persecution and say stuff like 'eh, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the world would be blind and toothless."

You are overlooking the the pre-refugee settlement (many of the refugees from the Nazis and the post WWII displaced persons were not Zionists; they just wanted to get *anywhere* they could live out their lives comparatively peacefully and with food in their mouths) of much of Palestine by Jews.

 

[JamesFox]

I would think they might have been influenced by the rampant sleeping sickness and malaria in the area as well, it was the reason Africa was called the Dark Continent at the time, since only the blacks were known to be able to survive the diseases there.

Additionally, the Buganda tribe were probably the most powerful left in Africa at the time.

Actually, the proposed settlement area is in Kenya today. It is part of the Kenyan highlands, had nothing to do with Buganda, and was relativly depopulated. The area was eventually opened up to white settlement in 1908.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Mormons fought back when they got persecuted, which is something Jews would never do. We'd probably make jokes about the persecution and say stuff like 'eh, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the world would be blind and toothless."

Firstly, other than the lynching of Leo Frank, I don't recall violent anti-Semitism being common in the United States at that time. Snotty behavior and not being admitted to country clubs, sure, but pogroms?

"Would never"? I think the ghetto fighters of Warsaw would disagree.

 

[Dynamitard]

Firstly, other than the lynching of Leo Frank, I don't recall violent anti-Semitism being common in the United States at that time. Snotty behavior and not being admitted to country clubs, sure, but pogroms?

"Would never"? I think the ghetto fighters of Warsaw would disagree.

Well, I was sort of speaking of a before the Holocaust time. Before the Holocaust, the most Jews would do when confronted with a pogrom would be to run away. During the Holocaust, most of them lined up and marched into the gas chambers without even complaining. (or maybe they did complain) The Warsaw Uprising was a very inspiring, very cool, exception to the rule. After the Holocaust, the Jews got transformed into the race of ass-kicking warrirors named the Israelis, and they were determined to make the best guns, kill everybody they wanted, and be allies of the United States.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Ah. Just checking.