Canary Islands under another rule
- Thread starter jmrioi
- Start date
No for the northern power, al least not untill well into the Age of Enlightement, taking the islands from Spain somehow (much like England got Menorca for a few decades and still keeps Gibraltar today)
The original conquest could have gone to Castille, Portugal, Morocco (depending on POD, maybe one of its predecessors like the Malohavids), or, with some butterflies, Mali.
But since you wanted a northern power, let's go for the weird end (than might not even be ASB!): Vikings taken off course in a storm somewere on the tenth century... Granted, they'd be all males, but it's not as if the islands were deserted... the next Viking raid on the Cordoba Caliphate comes from the south and is composed of strangely tanned and darkhaired Vikings
The original conquest could have gone to Castille, Portugal, Morocco (depending on POD, maybe one of its predecessors like the Malohavids), or, with some butterflies, Mali.
But since you wanted a northern power, let's go for the weird end (than might not even be ASB!): Vikings taken off course in a storm somewere on the tenth century... Granted, they'd be all males, but it's not as if the islands were deserted... the next Viking raid on the Cordoba Caliphate comes from the south and is composed of strangely tanned and darkhaired Vikings
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Or perhaps it is under the control of an island black African state, how's them apples?
Not exactly a northern power, but a french-norman king of the Canary Islands is not beyond the possibilities. If you manage to have a more succesfull, able or lucky Jean de Béthencourt, he could keep large autonomous powers,and perhaps even him or his descendants could profit the castilian internal turmoils to gain total independence. It could have interesting butterflies regarding the exploration to the Americas and the fate of the guanches.
Fenlander
Banned
Even with the best will in the world I can't see any black African state getting the Canaries. They're a thousand miles to the north of the nearest potential candidates, and on the wrong side of the Sahara to boot. Then of course you have the fact that no West African state ever bothered with a navy capable of matching those Spain, Morocco or Portugal. No sane African king is going to focus his efforts on conquering several hundred miles of desert wasteland then becoming a major maritime power then wresting and keeping some trivial islands hundred of miles away from hostile Arab and European powers - all of whom are much more powerful and much closer.
I think there was a US plan for that, but the war ended too soon before this could they could be invaded. I think the US could do it militarily, but in the post-war, I could see some of the other European powers trying to push them out.
I don't know if it would be military possible. Maybe it was, although the Canary Islands are far from american bases than Cuba and nearer to spanish bases than the Philipines, but anyway the spanish fleet was screwed. But the difference is that there wasn't independentist movement in the islands and an overwhelming majority of canarians considered and felt themselves as spaniards, so they won't be happy with american occupation. Also, it would be too much humiliation for Spain, and the public, not always enthusiast with the war in Cuba and Philipines, probably would have a different percepton in that case and more determination of resistance, volunteers etc. And of course, it's easier to send reinforcements from the Peninsula if necessary. I don't mean it was impossible, but the difficulties for the american are a lot more than in Cuba and Philippines, I think.
Luis de la Cerda was nominated king of the Canaries in 1344 although it was an honorary title WI this was not honorary. Could the kingdom of the Canary Islands survive? Luis de la Cerda amassed a considerable fortune that with some luck and some other support, could have provided a kingdom, if not to him, to their descendands. My next question is: this post is in the right place or is ASB?
How would that kingdom develope? Who would be the colonizers? A pyrate kingdom against the moors?
How would that kingdom develope? Who would be the colonizers? A pyrate kingdom against the moors?
Grey Wolf
Donor
Wow I'd never heard of him! You learn something cool every day, thanks!
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
An independent islamic "taifa" would be nice too. In fact I don´t know why the islam didn´t conquer the islands. They could have done it long time before Castile. In fact, How would be the relationship between Genovese, Mallorca, Portugal, Castile and the "Muslim kingdom of the Canary Islands"?
Anyway, I find more credible a pope naming king of the Canaries to a powerful noble (someone like Luis de la Cerda, in fact, named king of the Canaries in 1344); or the guy in charge to conquer them for Castile (Jean of Bethencourt) becoming a new Henry of Portugal, increasing the power of his lands and even conquering more land in the continent.
Another options, I think ASB options, could be "the king of Castile or Portugal delivers the rights of conquest/posession over the Canaries to the Order of XXXXX", "the expulsion of jews from England/France, eventually led them to the faboulous lucky islands", and even "trade with muslims and christians of the peninsula takes guanches into a unification process that leads to the constitution of a powerful independent kingdom".
The case is: would this realm enough to bring portuguese to find the path to the Indias in the route to the west (in fact, explored by them) leading them to America and not tho the south?
Anyway, I find more credible a pope naming king of the Canaries to a powerful noble (someone like Luis de la Cerda, in fact, named king of the Canaries in 1344); or the guy in charge to conquer them for Castile (Jean of Bethencourt) becoming a new Henry of Portugal, increasing the power of his lands and even conquering more land in the continent.
Another options, I think ASB options, could be "the king of Castile or Portugal delivers the rights of conquest/posession over the Canaries to the Order of XXXXX", "the expulsion of jews from England/France, eventually led them to the faboulous lucky islands", and even "trade with muslims and christians of the peninsula takes guanches into a unification process that leads to the constitution of a powerful independent kingdom".
The case is: would this realm enough to bring portuguese to find the path to the Indias in the route to the west (in fact, explored by them) leading them to America and not tho the south?
Independence movements would have not changed anything. There were independence movements that had control of most of the Philippines but the US after finishing its war with Spain turned to fight them. That resulted in the Philippines-American war. Unlike Cuba or the Philippines, in Puerto Rico in 1898 there was no active armed group fighting for independence even though there were some groups who were for independence. But the US still invaded Puerto Rico. So the chances are they would have invaded the Canaries no matter if they had an independent movement or not. Those people in the Canaries who did not like US occupation would probably be given the option of moving to Spain.
Last edited:
It´s a traduction of the Spanish so...
"Jean de Bethencourt and Gadifer de la Salle staged the first stage of the conquest. The reasons are basically economic: Bethencourt had factories an dyeing textiles and dyeing products offered Canary: orchilla. Bethencourt had significant political supporters in the court of King Henry III of Castile. A relative of his, Rubin de Braquemont, obtained from th king the right of conquest of the Canary Islands to the Norman noble. Bethencourt, in exchange for obtaining the rights of conquest became a vassal of the Castilian king. Rubin de Braquemont contributed a large sum of money to the conquest.
Conquest of Lanzarote: From La Rochelle, and after stops in Galicia and Cadiz, the Norman expedition arrived in Lanzarote in the summer of 1402. The Normans settled in the south of the island, where they built a fort and founded the bishopric of the Canaries. From there tried the assault of Fuerteventura.
Conquest of Fuerteventura
Between 1402 and 1405. The long duration is due bothe to the resistance of the islanders, as the difficulties and divisions between the two captains of the conquest. Hunger and lack of resources forced the expedition to retreat to Lanzarote. Bethencourt traveled to Castilla in search of relief. There obtained from King Henry III the means and the confirmation of its exclusive rights over the islands to conquer, marginalizing Gadifer.
...
After the conquest, Bethencourt, sole owner of the islands, will march to Normandy in search of settlers and new resources to continue the conquest of the rest of the islands. <<(What if he had achieved its objectives to a greater extent and getting more Norman settlers and resoruces than he did?)>>
Conquest of El Hierro
It took place in late 1405. There was no resistance from the small Aboriginal population was largely sold as slaves, repopulated the island with colonists Normans and Castilians. <<(What if they were only Normans)>>
Bethencourt remained in the islands until 1412, when he returned permanently to his estate in Normandy, leaving the front of their insular possessions to Maciot de Bethencourt.Betancuriana stage ended in 1418, when Maciot sold his domains and the rights of conquest over the rest of the islands to the count of Niebla. (Above all, What if he had stayed longer in their island domains or WI Maciot had not sold their rights?) What would be the destinatination of the Norman Canary Islands?
"Jean de Bethencourt and Gadifer de la Salle staged the first stage of the conquest. The reasons are basically economic: Bethencourt had factories an dyeing textiles and dyeing products offered Canary: orchilla. Bethencourt had significant political supporters in the court of King Henry III of Castile. A relative of his, Rubin de Braquemont, obtained from th king the right of conquest of the Canary Islands to the Norman noble. Bethencourt, in exchange for obtaining the rights of conquest became a vassal of the Castilian king. Rubin de Braquemont contributed a large sum of money to the conquest.
Conquest of Lanzarote: From La Rochelle, and after stops in Galicia and Cadiz, the Norman expedition arrived in Lanzarote in the summer of 1402. The Normans settled in the south of the island, where they built a fort and founded the bishopric of the Canaries. From there tried the assault of Fuerteventura.
Conquest of Fuerteventura
Between 1402 and 1405. The long duration is due bothe to the resistance of the islanders, as the difficulties and divisions between the two captains of the conquest. Hunger and lack of resources forced the expedition to retreat to Lanzarote. Bethencourt traveled to Castilla in search of relief. There obtained from King Henry III the means and the confirmation of its exclusive rights over the islands to conquer, marginalizing Gadifer.
...
After the conquest, Bethencourt, sole owner of the islands, will march to Normandy in search of settlers and new resources to continue the conquest of the rest of the islands. <<(What if he had achieved its objectives to a greater extent and getting more Norman settlers and resoruces than he did?)>>
Conquest of El Hierro
It took place in late 1405. There was no resistance from the small Aboriginal population was largely sold as slaves, repopulated the island with colonists Normans and Castilians. <<(What if they were only Normans)>>
Bethencourt remained in the islands until 1412, when he returned permanently to his estate in Normandy, leaving the front of their insular possessions to Maciot de Bethencourt.Betancuriana stage ended in 1418, when Maciot sold his domains and the rights of conquest over the rest of the islands to the count of Niebla. (Above all, What if he had stayed longer in their island domains or WI Maciot had not sold their rights?) What would be the destinatination of the Norman Canary Islands?
Didn't Britain annex Majorica around the same time they took Gibraltar, and they lost it and executed the general who'd botched the defense (in reality I remember it had something to do with the part of the British fleet he commanded being woefully inadequate). Have them keep it and you get Gibraltar 2.0.
An Islamic Taifa, U.S. occupation or Norman occupation isn't totally bizarre to me either.
An Islamic Taifa, U.S. occupation or Norman occupation isn't totally bizarre to me either.
Sorry, I´m talking about the Canary Islands, not Majorica, but yeah, the brits could be good contenders to the islands rule. For me the best option is a Norman County under Maciot Bethencourt progeny but I´m not quite sure about how the iberian kingdoms would response against that. I imagine that it would remain as a vasall state of Castille but the continuing civil war in the peninsula could allow a degree of independence for such a distant county in the mid XV and after that, if they can manage portuguese, castilians, french, brits, turks and the Netherlands, they are in a great junction to become a powerful country.
A few years ago, I had posited perhaps the Norse could have discovered the Macronesian isles. After all, they sailed quite far, including into the Mediterranean, so there's no reason, practically speaking, they couldn't have discovered them.
Settling is another matter. At minimum, they'd need to find wives, and they'd probably need a close base of operation as well. Perhaps an alternate "Normandy" is formed around OTL's Central Portugal. But if they wait too long to settle the islands (more than a generation or two), you'd just end up with effectively Iberian islands anyway.
Settling is another matter. At minimum, they'd need to find wives, and they'd probably need a close base of operation as well. Perhaps an alternate "Normandy" is formed around OTL's Central Portugal. But if they wait too long to settle the islands (more than a generation or two), you'd just end up with effectively Iberian islands anyway.