Canadian Continent

Historian Thomas Fleming wrote a short article in the book "What If? II" about the possibility of France holding on to Louisiana if the Napoleonic invasion of Haiti hadn't been decimated by disease. I offer a timeline in which the initial French success results in most of Louisiana falling into British hands and the potential superpower Canada that results...
This is definitely a rough timeline, one I threw together without serious research, so feel free to pick it apart.


1803: France declines to sell Louisiana to the United States following the re-conquest of Haiti. At some point the British will feel compelled to seize New Orleans.


1809-1812: The United States declares war upon the British Empire due to grievances on the high seas and in Louisiana; despite giving their full effort, the States are unable to decisively dislodge British control of the mouth of the Mississippi.


1815: The British Empire annexes all Louisiana and New Spain east of the Red River boundary in North America, leaving them with almost half of the entire continent.



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1819-1822: Spain refuses to sell peninsular Florida to the United States, who then invade the territory; aware that the United States covets much of Canada and will ever be an increasing threat, the British Empire narrowly decides to declare war upon the United States.

Overwhelmed by superior British forces, the United States loses the Florida War and with it Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois; all of East and West Florida remain with Spain.



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1828: Great Britain coerces Spain into selling the Floridas to them.

1833-1855: Several endemic rebellions convulse the Canadian colonies, with Québécois, Irish, Scots-Irish, and autonomists in turn rebelling against perceived persecution, corruption, neglect, condescension, ad nauseam. Each rebellion is put down through both military strength and diplomacy.


1844: The Republic of Mexico and the British Empire sign the Oregon Treaty granting the disputed Oregon Country north of the 42N latitude to the Canada territories.


1853-1856: The United States erupts into Civil War over perceived ANorthern@ domination of the government prompting eight ASouthern@ states to secede; despite nearly four years of horrific fighting and over four hundred thousand deaths, the industrial might of the North is unable even to subdue Tennessee and Virginia; following the election of a new President, the United States signs an armistice with the newly recognized Confederate States; a plebiscite held in Kentucky results in that state joining the South.

1856: At the end of the Crimean War, the British Empire annexes Russian Alaska to Canada.
Canada is reorganized as the autonomous Dominion of Canada, under a democratic constitution moderated by a Crown-appointed Governor General.


1866: The United States amends its constitution for the direct election of the President since the original electoral college system currently made it possible to win the national election with 1/4 the national vote Bhalf the popular votes in the three largest states. The amendment stipulates that a candidate must win 40% of the total popular vote or the decision will be sent to the House of Representatives.


1873-1874: Mexico and the British Empire go to war over California and Texas, two territories of Mexico with large Anglo populations and a Gold Rush; the British win the Baja peninsula and all of Mexico north of the 30N Latitude.



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1881: Canadian Parliament issues a statement politely demanding autonomous status as an independent member of the British Empire; under pressure the British Parliament acquiesces by rescinding the office of Governor-General and allowing for separate foreign relations for Canada, but maintaining a binding alliance. As part of earlier negotiations, the administration of the Bahamas, Jamaica, and other Carribean Islands transfers to the Dominion of Canada.
 
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This is embarrassing, but I apparently don't know how to properly attach more than one map to a post at a time. :eek:
Fortunately, the last map is the most important for this rough draft timeline.
 
I like the POD with Lousiana, although I suspect that the following war that the US would be able to take New Orleans but have to give it back because of naval reverses, (perhaps large scale raids?ie burning DC)

The additonal steps of the Civil War, losing to Spain and Britain taking so much from Mexico, taken all together seem a bit much.
 
I'm liking this.

In the face of British/Canadian domination of the continent though, wouldn't the North and South US keep their differences firmly put aside for the sake of unity and security? They'd know that any division will only weaken them more, and suck it in.
 
I cannot as well follow those attachments. But I like the timeline and the mini usa and csa. I feel like the British wouldnt be able to hold that much for some reason.
 
An interesting timeline cylon. Does Britain have the resources (men, ships & money) to do all this while fighting successive wars against Napoleon 1803-15? Also, I doubt that there'd be an American Civil War in TTL. The issue of slavery, the main wedge issue between North & South, will go differently. BTW, in OTL Canada did not exist until 1867.
 
Failed Attachments and Call for Suggestions

I'm new to posting pics in forums, and I screwed up the first two maps. They showed first the Louisiana annexation and the annexation of states in 1822. They aren't too important for this rough draft.

BTW, at the time of the annexation, only Maine had a substantial population; all the rest combined had a population under 20,000 if I recall correctly.

I'm seriously considering to remove the Canadian-Mexican War. I put that in because I was having fun making the most gargantuan Canada possible. It does seem a bit overkill and cliche.

I welcome any and all input on the (several) weak points of my timeline, especially the very beginning between 1803 and 1813.
 
Not sure about the US splitting into North and South. Without Florida, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Texas, that leaves only 7 southern states that seceded per OTL, so not sure where you get 8 southern states seceding. Plus, without any of the Louisiana territory, control of the Mississippi, and the loss of Maine, Michigan, Wisconsin and Illinois, and no possible expansion West, TTL's US will be much smaller in terms of population, and overall industrial development. Without the upper Midwest, the US won't have much if any control of the Great Lakes and so won't build the Erie Canal, and without New Orleans and the Mississippi River, there will be much less intra and inter national trade. In fact, the relatively weak and underdeveloped US will most likely be firmly controlled by the slave holding states in terms of both economic clout and political clout. The populations of the north and south will be much closer as well. So the Southern States will never feel the need to secede. Actually, it is more likely that New England might secede instead.

Otherwise, it is an interesting TL
 
An interesting TL indeed. I have questions over whether the UK would really annex Maine in a peace deal, whether Louisiana would really be attached to "Canada", and whether Britain would really be so willing to repeatedly wage war against a Mexico they wanted to trade with so readily (except in case of defence), but I like it.
 
1803: France declines to sell Louisiana to the United States following the re-conquest of Haiti. At some point the British will feel compelled to seize New Orleans.
Whe have gone over this before,
In 1803, the Mississippi Militia was preparing to attack New Orleans, when word of the sale arrived.
At some point the British will feel compelled to seize New Orleans.
?Why? in 1806~1807 twelve years after the war started Britain made two Half Hearted attempt at La Plata, and them abandoned any other attacks on Spainish Colonies.
They didn't invade French Martinique till 1794, 5 years after the start of the war, gave it back in 1803, and then waited 6 years before taking it again in 1809, only to return it in 1814.

During the Napoleonic Wars unlike the 7 years war, Britain Wasn't concerned with gaining territories.

As these are the 2 points your TL is based on, You have to go back and explain How/Why The US failed to take New Orleans in 1803 ~1805, and why Britain decided to Take New Orleans after all.
 
Would an earlier POD during the American Revolution where the Spanish don't succeed in taking Pensacola or British settlements along the Gulf Coast work? Then Britain will already have a springboard for further expansion in the continent.
 
Thanks for the Constructive Criticism

Duquesne

You bring up some excellent points for me to research. I wrote this on a lark a couple years ago and decided to post it because I wanted to see just how (im)plausible it was. You and Ironram (and others) have given me some good points to start out for reconstructing this into actually a good timeline. :)

If anyone wants to take a stab at a mini rough draft timeline similar to mine, I would love to read it.
 
Britain could maybe take northern Maine at least, not many people there and not very important in its own right but it'd help Canadaian defence to have more depth there.
I'm not sure on Britain taking all of Louisiana like that though- and especially making a uber Canada out of it. Assuming it does happen it'd be two countries at least- it makes as much sense for the New Orleans area to be ruled from Canada (or vice-versa) as for either to be ruled directly from London.
 
I'm thinking this is a bit too much in the British/Canadian's favor..the Americans could have done something to get a bit more land,and I see the opposite happening..America getting the continent. Due to how slow the Canadian Federation formed.
 
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