Canada/Britain Power

[Jbenuniv]

I have a vague idea of a timeline in which Canada, or rather it's analogue in the tl becomes the center of the British-Canadian Empire.

Basically, the Americans either lose or don't fight the Revolution, so the UK maintains a firm grasp on North America.
Because of the failed Revolution or for whatever reason, Parliament adopts a more enlightened colonial policy, with currency being coined for the American Colonies, and more trade and immigration from Britain, Ireland, and norther Europe in general.
In this tl, despite the lack of the US, France undergoes it's own bloody revolution, and it is more successful. France under Napoleon becomes the dominant European power, somewhat counterbalanced by an uneasy alliance of Prussia, Russia, and England.
Due to the Napoleonic threat, more investment and fortification in the American colonies takes place, and the colonies, due to the war and devestation wrought by the second napoleonic war upon britain proper, become more powerful, with a semi-federal system developing. Evantually they become the center of the EMpire, like india in the Peshawar Lancers.

thoughts, critiques?

 

[Johnnyreb]

There is always two problems about Britain and an entire British North American continent.

One is that it needed an enormous amount of capital to develop the vacant interior of the USA. Combining it with Canada nearly doubles the problem, and it matters not if Canada/USA stays British or if, say, the USA captures Canada in the War of 1812.

In OTL the British nearly managed it. Because they were the world's wealthiest nation back then, they financed Canada and a good deal of development in the USA too. But it would go slower.

The second problem is people. There is no way England Wales and Scotland could supply sufficient people to open up one, never mind both, of these huge countries.

Lastly, you have to find a reason for moving the British Establishment, bag and baggage, to the New World. This was touched on in a TL not so long ago.Someone suggested a successful invasion of England by a European power.

 

[Sgt Detritus]

There is always two problems about Britain and an entire British North American continent.

One is that it needed an enormous amount of capital to develop the vacant interior of the USA. Combining it with Canada nearly doubles the problem, and it matters not if Canada/USA stays British or if, say, the USA captures Canada in the War of 1812.

What if Britain only ends up controlling some of the midwest and northwest??

http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/althistx/WA.html

 

[mihaf]

I believe the Revolution would have been attempted a second time

 

[Darkling]

I believe the Revolution would have been attempted a second time

Why do you believe that?

 

[Darkling]

What if Britain only ends up controlling some of the midwest and northwest??

http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/althistx/WA.html

I did a timeline along similar lines (it wasn't Napoleon falling off his horse it was Brock living + 2,000 extra troops in BNA which snowballed into the US getting thoroughly hammered in the war of 1812) which ended up with recurring Empire Vs US wars every 30 years or so.

Canada (or the constituent parts) ended up as part of a Federal Empire and in theory the American parts of the Empire outweigh Britain but London remains the capital and the white folk of the Empire pretty much consider themselves to all be British.

 

[ljofa]

The second problem is people. There is no way England Wales and Scotland could supply sufficient people to open up one, never mind both, of these huge countries.

Why can't some leader arise advocating forced breeding programmes, ensuring huge families of 8 or 9 kids in each family - or shipping over only women from Europe to breed with as women generally outnumber the men?

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Why can't some leader arise advocating forced breeding programmes, ensuring huge families of 8 or 9 kids in each family - or shipping over only women from Europe to breed with as women generally outnumber the men?

Or, as per OTL, importing millions of Germans, Scandinavians, and Eastern Europeans to fill the empty spaces?

 

[stevep]

I did a timeline along similar lines (it wasn't Napoleon falling off his horse it was Brock living + 2,000 extra troops in BNA which snowballed into the US getting thoroughly hammered in the war of 1812) which ended up with recurring Empire Vs US wars every 30 years or so.

Canada (or the constituent parts) ended up as part of a Federal Empire and in theory the American parts of the Empire outweigh Britain but London remains the capital and the white folk of the Empire pretty much consider themselves to all be British.

Darkling

That settles it. I was tooling with dusting off one of my scenarios for putting something on the web here but sounds too much like what you have.

Steve

 

[xchen08]

With a failed american revolution or none at all, Canada would be a poorly settled and utterly unimportant northern territory of British North America, especially without the loyalists who ended up settling there in OTL. The center of BNA would in the OTL US.

 

[Smaug]

Why can't some leader arise advocating forced breeding programmes, ensuring huge families of 8 or 9 kids in each family - or shipping over only women from Europe to breed with as women generally outnumber the men?

Sounds a bit Nazi-ish. But hey, I suppose it might work. Why not use India and the other colonies for the bodies they need? Rotate semi trouble makers to different colonies, while still filling the need for bodies in less developed areas.

Indians in Canada, Scottish in India, and American colonists in the Caribean?

I'm not gonna say this is well thought out, but it worked for tha Assyrians. Shuffle the troublesome population, and deny them the ground root support they need to cause real trouble.

 

[Darkling]

With a failed american revolution or none at all, Canada would be a poorly settled and utterly unimportant northern territory of British North America, especially without the loyalists who ended up settling there in OTL. The center of BNA would in the OTL US.

With no ARW Canada would technically include Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin which would hardly be unsettled.

It is also quite possible that the British try to settle the land to try and integrate the French Canadians, there will certainly be spill over from the Niagara, Detroit and upstate New York areas, especially if the British slow down westward expansion to any degree.

 

[Darkling]

Darkling

That settles it. I was tooling with dusting off one of my scenarios for putting something on the web here but sounds too much like what you have.

Steve

Go for it, it will be interesting to see your take on the idea.

 

[stevep]

Go for it, it will be interesting to see your take on the idea.

Darkling

Placed the 1st chapter on the pre-1900 section. Titled Red, Blue and Green. Only covers the 1st year after the two PODs in 1809 but will move faster later. See what you think.

Steve