C.S.A. The Movie

[Roedecker]

Why would that be? Blacks aren't a majority in the South now...

That's only because of a HUGE "black exodus" from the South after World War I. Before the war, more than 80 percent of blacks lived in the southern states. The exodus spread the African-American population throughout America. I'm certain that if that had not happened and 80 percent of blacks still lived in the South and taken in populatio growth, by now blacks would make up a slim majority.

 

[Jesse]

That's only because of a HUGE "black exodus" from the South after World War I.

Interesting, I hadn't known about that...what was it about the end of WWI that caused this? Was there a smaller version of the same thing after WWII, or in any other historical period? Might similar circumstances cause a similar exodus in an alternate timeline, or was it something very unique about the end of that war?

 

[pisces74]

I thought the exodus took place after the ACW. "40 acres and a mule" and all that.

 

[wkwillis]

Nope, what happened is that they stopped immigration to the US. Black people moved into the slums as the previous immigrants moved to the suburbs and started doing the low wage labor that immigrants like my grandfather did. He didn't speak fluent English and had to take low paying jobs to make the rent.

 

[Roedecker]

Interesting, I hadn't known about that...what was it about the end of WWI that caused this?

It was called the Great Migration. When World War I began, blacks enlisted to fight for their country. However, black soldiers were segregated, denied the opportunity to be leaders, and were subjected to racism within the armed forces. During the war, hundreds of thousands of Southern blacks migrated northward in 1916 and 1917 to take advantage of job openings in Northern cities created by the war. This great migration of Southern blacks continued into the 1950s. Along with the great migration, blacks in both the North and South became increasingly urbanized during the 20th century.

In 1890, about 85 percent of all Southern blacks lived in rural areas; by 1960 that percentage had decreased to about 42 percent. In the North, about 95 percent of all blacks lived in urban areas in 1960.

 

[Michael E Johnson]

http://www.csathemovie.com/

"CSA: The Confederate States of America, through the eyes of a faux documentary, takes a look at an America where the South won the Civil War. Supposedly produced by a British broadcasting company, the feature film is presented as a production being shown, controversially, for the first time on television in the States."

I saw posters of this movie plastered on 14th Street in NYC tonight and decided to check out the website. At first I was a bit skeptical because I couldn't recall a AH movie of this scale before. Sure, I've read a lot of books which were brilliant IMO (two of my favs: The Years of Rice and Salt, The Civil War Series by Harry Turtledove) and have read MANY of the posts here on this site (some of which were highly detailed and sounded very plausible), but a movie? That could pull off telling a story of counter-factual history that would sound believable?

The site has movie trailers, a timeline, and behind the scenes clips. The movie seems interesting enough, so I plan on seeing it in the future.

What do you all think about this? Do you think that this movie is an accurate depiction of what could've happened if the South won the Civil War?

Another good review for the movie-


http://www.scifi.com/sfw/screen/sfw12291.html

 

[Gustav Anderman]

Is this film based on ward moore´s "Bring the Jubilee"?

 

[NomadicSky]

Did anyone else read the "timeline" for this movie
crap absolute implausible crap
Slavery in the 21 century yeah right
There is no way the CS would takeover the US

 

[B_Munro]

That's only because of a HUGE "black exodus" from the South after World War I. Before the war, more than 80 percent of blacks lived in the southern states. The exodus spread the African-American population throughout America. I'm certain that if that had not happened and 80 percent of blacks still lived in the South and taken in populatio growth, by now blacks would make up a slim majority.

That would require there being rather less whites in the south than in our timeline. [1] Using 2002 Times Almanac figures, there were 34.658 million self-identified African americans in the 2000 census. 80% of that is 27.726 million. For the core states of the Confederacy including Tennessee, the white population was in the 2000 census around 61 million, outnumbering the blacks roughly 2-1.

Bruce

[1] Of course, there might be rather less: no big post WWII sun-belt migration from the north, plus (depending on how unpleasant the Confederacy becomes over time) higher out-migration. And slaveholders were very "pro-family" re their slaves (more property!), so the growth rate of the black population might be higher.

So, a black-majority confederacy is at least imaginable, if not high-probability. But we're talking about "above 50%": we're not talking about a South-Africa like "over 75%".

 

[Chris Oakley]

It does seem odd that a separatist movement would want to take over the whole nation.

Amen.If anything,I should think the CSA would completely wash its hands of the Northern states in this ATL.

 

[NomadicSky]

It is odd because if the CSA takes over the whole country then you have the same situation that you left to start with

 

[WFHermans]

The story is familiar to any American schoolchild. In 1862, with the War of Northern Aggression in full swing, Confederate President Jefferson Davis dispatches his secretary of state, Judah P. Benjamin, across the Atlantic to plead with England and France for military support. By casting the war as an issue of freedom and states' rights rather than one of slavery, Benjamin manages to sway public opinion in Europe. With British and French troops on their flanks, Gen. Robert E. Lee wins a decisive victory at Gettysburg in July of 1863 and turns the tide of the war.

The Confederate Army eventually seizes Washington, D.C., and Ulysses S. Grant's surrender to Lee ends the war. Assisted by Harriet Tubman, Abraham Lincoln flees the capital in blackface but is soon captured. "Dishonest Abe" is found guilty of war crimes and sentenced to death, but President Davis wisely commutes the sentence, fearing Northern rebellion if Lincoln is executed. Lincoln lives out his long life in Canadian exile, mostly forgotten.

Davis moves to unite and consolidate the new nation by levying a burdensome income tax on Northerners, one that can be waived by the simple purchase of a black slave. And since nothing unites a country like war, the Confederate States soon tests its mettle against Spain in the Caribbean, then marches south to fulfill its Manifest Destiny with the conquest and enslavement of Mexico and Central and South America.

In the 20th century, Canada, haven for runaway slaves, emerges as America's great enemy, while African dictators happily collaborate in the subjugation and sale of their own people. Terrorists from the John Brown Underground stage devastating raids south across the "Cotton Curtain," a 3,000-mile-long wall along the 49th parallel, leading to racial violence that only unites the whites of America.

But as the C.S. enters a new millennium, schoolchildren can rest easy knowing that their country still stands, in the words of the Pledge of Allegiance, for the values of "liberty and justice for all white people."

http://www.scifi.com/sfw/screen/sfw12291.html

Why would this be impossible?

 

[Nicole]

Because the Confederate States would not annex the north, and the tax for non-slaveholders is idiotic.

 

[Wendell]

This concept is certainly rather absurd at points.

 

[Straha]

The concept of a victorious confederacy rising as a superpower and subjucating millions in latin america is plausible enough. Same with the retaining of slavery. But conquering the north? That's just ASB.

 

[Wendell]

The concept of a victorious confederacy rising as a superpower and subjucating millions in latin america is plausible enough. Same with the retaining of slavery. But conquering the north? That's just ASB.

Maybe conquering the Western states is possible, but NOT the Northeast. Not then.

 

[Straha]

Maybe conquering the Western states is possible, but NOT the Northeast. Not then.

No. None of them. In fact the CSA is likely if it treis taking the union would prolly louse missouri, maryland, delaware, kentucky and another bite out of virginia. Taking over corrupt unindustrialized nations in latin america is one thing and trying to take the US is another.

 

[Wendell]

No. None of them. In fact the CSA is likely if it treis taking the union would prolly louse missouri, maryland, delaware, kentucky and another bite out of virginia. Taking over corrupt unindustrialized nations in latin america is one thing and trying to take the US is another.

I don't think it would invade the Union and seek to take it over, but Califonia might secede, maybe bringing Nevada, and the CSA could get the territories in the Southwest at the peace table.

 

[Straha]

California if it seceded would go off on its own. Not join the CSA under any circumstances. Ally with the CSA yes but NEVER join it.

 

[Wendell]

California if it seceded would go off on its own. Not join the CSA under any circumstances. Ally with the CSA yes but NEVER join it.

Sure, not right away, but EVER?