Byzantine's don't get conquered by the Ottomans

jczak97

Ok, so what would be needed to make the Byzantine Empire survive past the Ottomans? By this I mean, is it possible to save the Empire before they Ottomans come knocking on Constantinople, and if not how far back would you have to go to prevent the fall? Finally if they do survive, what would be the repercussions in the world if they did?
 

EmperorSimeon

Too many butterflies for this. Need a pod with either no fourth crusade or no manzikert. Also perhaps a stronger line of emperors.
 

EmperorSimeon

Well you could push things even further back by preventing the rise of iconoclasm, or have Basil II lead a line of successful emperors.
 

Redhand

Banned
No Byzantine Civil War of 1341 would be a big help. Keeping the Byzantine Army strong and the navy powerful would be huge as if the Ottomans cannot get into Europe, they will be destroyed in the Turkic Wars related to the Timurids and eventually internal strife. If the Byzantines keep Greece, and keep the Balkans relatively friendly while slowly building back up to the Danube, I can see them surviving for quite some time and maybe even reaching nation state levels of stability. Civil Wars have to stop, which they could as long as the Emperor recentralizes everything (doable if you have a strong army and supportive church) and curbs the nobles power.

Ultimately this comes down to the fact that the Ottomans were an unspectacular Turkic Tribe until the crossed into Europe and gained resources set them apart. If they are stuck in a disunited Anatolia, they would not survive the trauma of the Timurids attacking.
 

Deleted member 67076

You can save the empire up to Timur's invasion. That was really their last chance. As for the effects of their survival, that very much depends on POD needed to ensure their survival.

Redhand said:
No Byzantine Civil War of 1341 would be a big help. Keeping the Byzantine Army strong and the navy powerful would be huge as if the Ottomans cannot get into Europe, they will be destroyed in the Turkic Wars related to the Timurids and eventually internal strife. If the Byzantines keep Greece, and keep the Balkans relatively friendly while slowly building back up to the Danube, I can see them surviving for quite some time and maybe even reaching nation state levels of stability. Civil Wars have to stop, which they could as long as the Emperor recentralizes everything (doable if you have a strong army and supportive church) and curbs the nobles power.

Ultimately this comes down to the fact that the Ottomans were an unspectacular Turkic Tribe until the crossed into Europe and gained resources set them apart. If they are stuck in a disunited Anatolia, they would not survive the trauma of the Timurids attacking.
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The Empire would still be under an insane amount of division from the conservative elites and the reformist lower classes. A civil war would eventually come up sooner or later, unless you can get a reformer to make the empire more meritocratic. The Palaiologoi were too aristocratic for their own good and decentralized the empire quite a bit.

As well, the navy wasn't a thing by the time of Andronicus II who disbanded it to save money. Now, Alexious Apokaukos had plans to rebuild the navy (he personally paid out of his pocket the commissioning of a small fleet of 25 or so warships) so you if you want a strong navy keep him in power.
 

rottenvenetic

1354 (99 years before the final conquest) and thereafter: keep the Ottoman Turks out of Gallipoli, and by extension, Europe. Urban's guns or not, they won't be able to take Constantinople from across the strait.
 
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