British Nations

[Neala]

WI British nations within the British Isles (ie not Brittany) other than Wales and to an extent Cornwall survived the Anglo-Saxon invasions? For instance Dumnonia or Strathclyde

Would they survive to the present day? What would be the effect on history if they did?

England and Scotland would both be smaller and weaker. It might mean that the Lord of the Isles retains his virtual independence, possibly developing into a fully fledged King. The existence of other British states would strengthen Wales. Would the butterflies result in the continued existence of the Picts in some form?

It's also possible that the Vikings could make far greater in roads into the British Isles or that England and Scotland take far longer to unify as nation states. You could end up with 4 independent countries on the island of Great Britain - England, Scotland, Hebrides and Cymri (Wales).

It's unlikely in this situation that the English King would become the Lord of Ireland. However the Scottish King might claim such a title and that might even be accepted - the Scots are after all an Irish tribe and so a Scottish invasion could be interpreted as just another inter province war and not a foreign invasion (Could there be the 5 provinces of the Irish with a High King ruling over them all?)

Would England develop into a European or World power?

 

[Philip]

WI British nations within the British Isles (ie not Brittany) other than Wales and to an extent Cornwall survived the Anglo-Saxon invasions? For instance Dumnonia or Strathclyde

Would they survive to the present day? What would be the effect on history if they did?

They will have to consolidate to have a chance at survival.

You could end up with 4 independent countries on the island of Great Britain - England, Scotland, Hebrides and Cymri (Wales).

I doubt think they could all survive for long. Either one would dominate the others, or a foreign power (France? Norse? some other Germanic tribe?) would be able to invade.

 

[cerebus]

The trouble is England has no natural barriers making it easy for one country to dominate. Once that has happened ATL England wil linevitably drift into OTL shape with population/wealth & power base in the South east where the rich farm lands are .

They might not call themselves English but with the population advantage they are going to dominate.

 

[Neala]

Ok, how about something similar except

The British Kingdoms centralising to some extent in a kingdom of Cymru which consists of OTL Wales, Cornwall, Devon, Strathclyde, Cumbria and possibly the Pennines (ie the more defensible parts of OTL England and Wales)

If they were politically united at an early stage with a King and were able to resist the encroaching Germanic's, possibly even taking some land back but not able to drive them into the sea

You could certainly see the continued existence of an independent Cymru into the medieval period. At some point England and Cymru would probably be united, but it might be more like the OTL union of the crowns between England and Scotland.

If Strathclyde is part of Cymru then it's likely that Scotland would be weaker. This might mean that England could more easily take over, but this seems unlikely except possibly in the lowlands. It would mean that the Lord of the Isles would probably remain effectively independent. In OTL he was the third most powerful man in the British Isles for a long period of time. A weaker Scotland might also mean that the Clans are even more powerful than in OTL

Other countries might conquer parts of Britain, France in whatever form it takes and the Vikings would probably be the most likely

What effect would all this have on languages worldwide? Historically, the only Germanic tongue that has really taken route as a native language beyond central Europe is English and it's offshoots. Would Romance languages take over, and if so which one?