British California

Teleology

Banned
Maybe the British would keep California open to Chinese immigration in order to provide a cheap labor pool for British corporations and the place would be mostly run by the companies themselves, with Her Majesty's Government taking little interest due to the small number of loyal subjects living in the area. By the modern day you'd get a sort of Hong Kong-on-the-West Coast type feel.
 
By the by, anyone mind explaining why Britain would want to shat on its own reputation and relations interests with Latin American countries by helping dismember one of their own? A good part of British interests in the Americas were defined by keeping good and profitable trading relations with Latin America, of which a British dismemberment would be a Bad Thing for future relations, not just with nations who would (rightfully) be concerned that Britain might turn on them, but also with the US (who was aiming for a larger Pacific Coast itself, and grabbing California after the Oregon issue was settled really does shit on the spirit of the compromise, ie US gets what's below the line and Britain gets above the line).

No war needs to be made for a California grab to be severly unprofitable and troublesome for Britain and British interests.
 
By the by, anyone mind explaining why Britain would want to shat on its own reputation and relations interests with Latin American countries by helping dismember one of their own? A good part of British interests in the Americas were defined by keeping good and profitable trading relations with Latin America, of which a British dismemberment would be a Bad Thing for future relations, not just with nations who would (rightfully) be concerned that Britain might turn on them, but also with the US (who was aiming for a larger Pacific Coast itself, and grabbing California after the Oregon issue was settled really does shit on the spirit of the compromise, ie US gets what's below the line and Britain gets above the line).

No war needs to be made for a California grab to be severly unprofitable and troublesome for Britain and British interests.

Dean

I could see it being unpopular with the US, whether before or after an agreement on Oregon and that it doesn't really make that much sense after an agreement. However why would accepting an offer from Mexico upset any of the Latin American states? Might see some resentment in Mexico if a later government objects to its predecessor making the sale but that's about it.

I think its unlikely that Britain would be interested in such a sale unless relations with America were bad for some reason and Britain had decided to secure domination of the west cost. Possibly after an Oregon war?

Steve
 
I think the idea is Britain agreeing a Mexican offer to buy California at a point where Mexico knows that there is now nothing else they can do to stop the USA attacking them to take it over. A bit of a "if we can't have it, you can't have it either" philosophy, if you will.
 
I believe that people are forgetting the fact that the Californios were getting pretty tired with Mexico City in the 1830s and 1840s. The region, California, was fairly ignored by Mexico since it was geographically isolated from the rest of Mexico. The likes as such civic leaders as General M. Vallejo favored annexation by either the US or Britain.

I would consider that, much like Fiji, a British California would see a large number of East Indians settling there.
 
Regarding the US wanting access to the Pacific, what if Britain sold them a piece of California, perhaps everything north of the Arkansas River and south of the 42nd Parallel? Would that be enough to placate them?

American Purchase.png
 
Yes, that is the transliteration, however; translation of Los Angeles is "City of Angels." On that note, it would probably be called "Angel City."

Or we could go full-out, and use the English translation of the city's full name when first founded, which would make it "The Village of Our Lady, the Queen of the Angels of the river of Porziuncola" ;)
 
I think the idea is Britain agreeing a Mexican offer to buy California at a point where Mexico knows that there is now nothing else they can do to stop the USA attacking them to take it over. A bit of a "if we can't have it, you can't have it either" philosophy, if you will.
That would assume that Mexico knew, expected, or thought they would lose the war. They didn't, and had little reason to. The Mexican Army was much, much bigger, and pre-war newspapers and editorial-generals expected to go through Mexico, fighting around New Orleans, and possible marches through the South to liberate slaves and put a bloody nose to the one part of the US interested in the war.

Because, and most everyone knew this, Mexico had by far the bigger army. Mexico thought itself a natural great power as well, future leader of the South (America).

Of course it was a conscript army, it wasn't well organized or equipped, they didn't have the logistical base to do any such thing...

But no one realized that before the war, or fully understood it. This is a case of 20-20 hindsight, in which the American success was just so obvious, and anything else is simply silly. Mind you, this also forgets how near-disaster the US could have come to. Being run back into the seas outside of the Mexican capital, for example, would have changed a lot.

Dean

I could see it being unpopular with the US, whether before or after an agreement on Oregon and that it doesn't really make that much sense after an agreement. However why would accepting an offer from Mexico upset any of the Latin American states? Might see some resentment in Mexico if a later government objects to its predecessor making the sale but that's about it.
Because there wouldn't be an offer from Mexico, for the same reasons the natives of Latin America weren't fawning over themselves to sell themselves into the US for pennies an acre. Santa Anna considered, not even necessarily strongly, selling California to the US not for it's own sake or for profit, but as part of a greater settlement to a boundary dispute over the Texas border, which was far more important to Mexico. Whether Santa Anna could ever have even gotten such an agreement past the Mexican Congress is indeed in doubt (the propped up government that ended the war fell almost immediately after signing the American surrender documents), and there is little, if any, similar reason to sign the territory over to the British. Mexico did not need or want the gold (the American payments were in large part a salve on American consciousness), however loosly it held California it did hold it, and Britain doesn't really have anything else to offer. After the Oregon settlement, Britain doesn't even have a border.

A British California doesn't come from sale, short of changes that make Mexico not Mexico. It comes from partitioning Mexico, and almost certainly not with American agreement. Such an act will spoil much of Britain's good relations with Central/South/North America, which were built upon a reputation of not conquering and colonizing the New World.
 
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