British Army 'sanity options 2.0', 1935-43
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
Its not so much the equipment, its the doctrine. Given the OTL assumptions, I dont seeing getting better kit through. Dont rig the annual exercises to 'prove' we dont need an armoured force, and better doctrine gives us better kit. The other important thing is realising we will need to fight in Europe. Even if lack of money reduces it, it would be easier to expand from a trained and equipped cadre. And none of the useless light tanks!
Starting date of 1935 gives enough of time to introduce an intermediate cartridge. Money-wise, staying at .30 calibre is the least troubled path. Make something like the 7.62x 45 (Czech) or 7.62 x 39 (Soviet)? Such a cartridge can serve well in a LMG, semi-auto and full-auto weapons.
Literal mountain of the .303s will be reduced to a tiny hill once a big war starts; at least the RAF and it's thousands of fighters and hundreds of bombers with 8-12 .303 MGs, each at prodigious RoF, will see to it. It is much better to develop a new, smaller and cheaper now than to try to do it in mid-1940s.
Americans were fooled by thinking that literal mountains of .30-06 were a thing, thus failing to procure the M1 Garand in .276 Pedersen - let's not repeat their mistake. And US aircraft were not procured with dozens of LMGs.
Could you fit a saddle/drum magazine or maybe a casket (4 coloumn) to increase the ammo capacity of the Bren, rather than the standard 30 round box?
Start with the RSC 1918 and work from there? See it here working at it's healthy 100 years: video
.303 was probably even less problematic cartridge than the 8mm Lebel, being less bulky at the rim.
Getting away from the focus on the demand for better equipment or higher prewar spending, some thoughts (I've tried to limit them to the Army rather than higher strategic direction or policy)...
1. Try to establish a clearer chain of command in France in 1940, and to veto the Breda variant, keeping the mobile units in reserve
2. Greater tactical and operational coherence in 1942 rather than racing around the desert in "battlegroups"
3. End the process of "milking" Indian units earlier. This would have lead to fewer Indian army units deployed abroad in 1941-2, especially to the East, but those that were deployed would have been better trained, and possibly better equipped due to the equipment being spread across fewer units.
1. Try to establish a clearer chain of command in France in 1940, and to veto the Breda variant, keeping the mobile units in reserve
2. Greater tactical and operational coherence in 1942 rather than racing around the desert in "battlegroups"
3. End the process of "milking" Indian units earlier. This would have lead to fewer Indian army units deployed abroad in 1941-2, especially to the East, but those that were deployed would have been better trained, and possibly better equipped due to the equipment being spread across fewer units.
Restart the Experimental Mechanized Force and train, train, train, learn, learn, learn. Run realistic combined arms excercises every few months, in all weathers.
BlackDragon98
Banned
Bren has some serious built in limitations.
Which is why it got replaced pretty quick after WW2.
Yeah, but you can say goodbye to the sights.
So you use the anti aircraft sights that are meant to be used with the pan magazine.
(Or load plenty of tracer rounds)
Sod the technology - there are things you can do, but they aren't what matters.
Decide what capabilities the forces need. Build enough kit for realistic exercises. Use the combination of capabilities and outcomes from the exercises to build doctrine. Train the trainers.
The one campaign the UK 1) can anticipate is coming, 2) needs to win and 3) will basically win the war is fighting the Germans in France. The Panzers didn't beat the French Army and BEF by having better technology.
Decide what capabilities the forces need. Build enough kit for realistic exercises. Use the combination of capabilities and outcomes from the exercises to build doctrine. Train the trainers.
The one campaign the UK 1) can anticipate is coming, 2) needs to win and 3) will basically win the war is fighting the Germans in France. The Panzers didn't beat the French Army and BEF by having better technology.
No it wasn't, in British service it remained in the section load out into the 1970s and last saw front line use in the First Gulf War.
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BlackDragon98
Banned
Which makes no sense as the L2A1 SAW has better preformance, the same mag capacity, while being much lighter.
A Canadian Army veteran I know says that when he met British troops at an exchange back in the late 1970s, he was astounded that they still used the Bren when his C2A1 preformed just as well while being half as heavy.
L2/C2 is closed bolt, fixed barrel and can't properly lie prone as the mag is to long. Add the mag is feeding up, against gravity, meaning more stoppages.
With light bolt and weapon weight, it kicks and is a bitch to fire