Boer PODs

[Bill Cameron]

I've been re-reading Pakenham's The Boer War and have a few Boer PODs to pose.

Stillborn Boer Republics - Quite a few choices here. Either D'Urban does a better job implementing 1834 edict outlawing slavery lessening Afrikanner anger somehow, or the UK government subsidizes immigration to SA longer thus swamped the Afrikanners with numbers, or Dingaan and his Zulus do history a favor and massacre the 5,000 proto-Boers at Blood River in 1838. How ever it happens, the Voortrek doesn't occur or is a dismal failure. What next?

Early UK Suzerainty - Sir Harry Smith's actions in the late 1840s are not repudiated by Russel and Derby. The conventions of Zand River and Bloemfontein do not occur. As in the OTL, the Natal is seized but unlike the OTL Smith's annexation of territory between the Orange and Vaal is confirmed. Smith's defeat of Transvaal forces at Bloomplaatz and the subsequent political chaos allows British annexation of the Transvaal. What next?

Middle UK Suzerainity - In the OTL by the 1870s, the Transvaal was bankrupt and hemmed in by the Zulus, the British Army had occupied Pretoria without a shot in 1877, and the Zulu War in '79 put an end to their existence as an independent nation. Frere's plans for a federal constitution for SA like Canada seemed to be on track. Then Gladstone happened. He repudiated the take over, the annexation was left hanging, and the Boers revolted under Kruger in 1880. Gladstone compounded the problem by giving up the war after three small reverses including Majuba. Keep Gladstone out of power long enough for the annexation to go forward and improvements and investments to occur thus aborting Kruger's 1880 rebellion. No subsequent Pretoria and London conventions. What next?

Late UK Suzerainity - Rhodes slips on the soap or finally faces reality and the Jameson Raid is not launched. In the OTL in 1893 Kruger had barely won the presidency and then most certainly through fraud. By 1895, his stock was so low that various groups within the government and among the Uitlanders were conspiring to request Brisitsh annexation. Without the Raid to rouse Boer nationalist feelings, the Reformers and Uitlanders finally force Kruger from power and apply for annexation. What next?

Hope to read you ideas.


Bill

 

[mowque]

Bump, will post ideas later.

 

[Cook]

Rhodes slips on the soap

This isn’t a Homophobe remark is it?


My wonder is how events would have turned out if the Boers had restrained themselves instead of launching attacks on Cape Colony and Natal?

And how a free press could have altered events.

How would Europe have reacted to photographs of Women and Children dieing by the thousand in British Concentration Camps.

Or if Kitchener’s verbal order to shoot Boer prisoners had reached public attention.

Or Baden-Powell’s starving of the “coloureds” during the siege of Mafeking.

Or how events would have been different if the Boer Republic of Natalia had survived, giving the Boer Republics access to the sea that wasn’t controlled by either the British or Portuguese.

 

[Cook]

There is also the issue of hollow-point bullets.

Just prior to the Boer war the European powers signed the Hague Convention to outlaw hollow-point ammunition. The British signed to outlaw their use in “white” wars but retained them for use in colonial wars. (“They work so well on the coloureds don’t you know”)

When the Boer War broke out some Dum-dum ammunition found its’ way to South Africa.

 

[Cook]

In early August [1900], a force of 150 Queensland Mounted Infantry, 100 New South Wales Bushmen, smaller numbers of Victorian and Western Australian Bushmen and 75 Rhodesians under command of a British Officer, a Colonel Hore, were sent to guard a huge consignment of stores at the Elands River Post. They arrived at the post after a running fight with Boers front a commando of 2,500 to 3,000, commanded by General Jacobus "Koos" de la Rey, and quickly improvised a defensive position out of ox wagons and boxes and bags of stores.

The commando surrounded the post and during the next two days poured 2,500 artillery shells into it from the hills around. Nearly all of the 1,500 horses, mules and oxen were killed or died of wounds from the shelling, but the troop casualties were very light, since the men burrowed into the rocky ground and stayed down. After the second day the bombardment eased, probably because the Boers realized they were destroying the stores they badly needed, but they kept up intense rifle and machine-gun fire.

During the day, the defenders lay motionless in their holes in the ground, but at night they came out. Some ran the gauntlet of fire to bring water from the river, while others repaired shattered defenses and dug deeper holes and others went out into the darkness looking for Boer field-gun and machine-gun positions, which they attacked loudly with grenades or silently with knives and bayonets. Many sleeping Boers and even wide-awake sentries lost their lives in this night stalking and attack.

A Boer who had been at Elands River wrote: "For the first time in the war, we were fighting men who used our own tactics against us. They were Australian volunteers and though small in number we could not take their position. They were the only troops who could scout our lines at night and kill our sentries while killing and capturing our scouts. Our men admitted that the Austalians were more formidable opponents and far more dangerous than any other British troops."

On August 8, de la Rey, under a flag of truce, advised the Australians that the whole area was in Boer hands and there was no hope of relief for the post. He offered safe conduct to the nearest British garrison if they would surrender. It was that, or destruction by his artillery. The offer was refused, and the bombardment began again. On the 12th, de la Rey sent another offer of honorable surrender, to which Colonel Hore replied: "Even if I wished to surrender to you--and I don't--I am commanding Australians who would cut my throat if I accepted your terms."

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/other/boers.htm

I love that one.

 

[pompejus]

How about a Dutch Cape-Colony?

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

The Zulu War played into the Boer's hands, because it removed their most pressing threat. Without it, there was no need for the British.

To me, the British erred in not acquiring Delagoa Bay when they could have. That would have prevented an independent Boer access to the sea and forced them to use the Cape rail lines, which would have subordinated them to the Cape.

As it was, the rail line to Delagoa Bay shifted power to the Transvaal, to the point that even after winning the 2nd Boer War, the British lost.

 

[Cook]

As it was, the rail line to Delagoa Bay shifted power to the Transvaal, to the point that even after winning the 2nd Boer War, the British lost.

Can you clarify what you mean here a bit more mate?

I’d have thought Rhodes and his mates were the only winners on this one?

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Can you clarify what you mean here a bit more mate?

I’d have thought Rhodes and his mates were the only winners on this one?

The struggle between the Boers and British was all about hemming the former in and preventing them from having access to the sea - that's why Natal was annexed, as well as remaining native states.

The Boers got around that by building a rail line to Portuguese territory in the excellent harbor in Delagoa Bay. That meant all the customs revenue and rail receipts went to the Transvaal, which could set whatever rates it wanted, whereas before its economy was substantially at the mercy of the Cape government.

When the Boer States were annexed in 1879, the Boers had no choice, because of the nearby and very serious Zulu threat. When that was eliminated, the British lost all leverage over the Boers.

The 2nd Boer War saw the conquest of the Boer states, but by then it was really too late to prevent their domination of the Union. Economic power had already shifted from the Cape to the Transvaal.

 

[Bill Cameron]

squints...

Two thousand and FOUR... Huh?

Talk about thread necromancy...

Anyway I hope you gents enjoy the conversation 'cause 99.99% of whatever I learned from Pakenham's book has drained away.


Bill

 

[pompejus]

squints...

Two thousand and FOUR... Huh?

Talk about thread necromancy...

I didn't notice that. Had I, I don't think I would have posted anything. Sorry.

 

[mowque]

squints...

Two thousand and FOUR... Huh?

Talk about thread necromancy...

Anyway I hope you gents enjoy the conversation 'cause 99.99% of whatever I learned from Pakenham's book has drained away.


Bill

I didn't notice that. Had I, I don't think I would have posted anything. Sorry.

I don't think it was out of line.

 

[pompejus]

I don't think it was out of line.

It probably isn't (unless you do it often and don't make any good contributions to the thread), but I usualy don't post in threads that are so old, because people that have posted in them often have changed their opinion in the years after that. I know I prefer not to read my old posts.

 

[Bill Cameron]

I don't think it was out of line.

Mowque,

I didn't say it was.

I did say I remember very little about the book I read five and a half years ago so I won't be able to participate despite being the purported OP.

Seriously, I read the post I had written and didn't recognize half the names or events I wrote about.

It's a good topic and one that intrigued me all those years ago, I also hope more knowledgeable folks now run with it. However, while I'll read the thread with interest, I simply won't be able to participate in it.

Good luck!


Bill

 

[mowque]

It probably isn't (unless you do it often and don't make any good contributions to the thread), but I usualy don't post in threads that are so old, because people that have posted in them often have changed their opinion in the years after that. I know I prefer not to read my old posts.

Aye, but it was just a simple POD OP.

Anyway, so we have some thoughts that if the British populace really knew what was going down, things might have gone differently?

 

[67th Tigers]

How would Europe have reacted to photographs of Women and Children dieing by the thousand in British Concentration Camps.

The refugee camps had a significantly lower death rate than the population at large. The killer in them was an outbreak of measles, and the Boer "cure" was boiled human faeces.

Incidently, the camps weren't "gated", and no Boer civilian was confined to them. The worst death rates were those camps which Boer commandoes decided to siege to take their supplies.

Or if Kitchener’s verbal order to shoot Boer prisoners had reached public attention.

There is no evidence that he ever gave such an order. It was offered as a defence by some soldiers found guilty of shooting prisoners, although why Kitchener (commanding a multi-Corps army) would deliver verbal orders to a platoon commander is beyond me.

Or Baden-Powell’s starving of the “coloureds” during the siege of Mafeking.

No-one would care. The German extermination camps on Shark Island weren't exactly secret...

Although at Mafeking, everyone was starving. Had Baden-Powell not withdrawn rations from the non-residents and later the non-combatants Mafeking would have fallen. The rations would only last until January for the Africans and February for the Europeans (who ate different foodstuffs). During the siege 5% of the European (115 out of 2,400) and 10% of the African (700 out of 7,000) population died. However, this again is not even, 2,000 refugee tribesmen were deemed not to be the rationing bodies responsibility and they should go elsewhere, these account for roughly 480 of the 700 African deaths:

White: 4.8%
Black citizens: 4.4%
Black tribesmen: 24%

So the situation isn't one of starving the Africans, it's one of distinguishing between two groups of Africans, one of whom Baden-Powell had legal responsibility for (they were subjects of the Queen) and one of which he didn't...

 

[Julius Vogel]

I think we had a couple of threads on this topic in the last half of last year as well although I cannot remember who started them

There are other PODs that I quite like - relating to a lack of a Jameson Raid or some sort of Transvaal POD where Kruger loses the second election and we see a wholesale clearing of his cronies from power - either may allow a more British friendly regime, or at least one that allows for a stronger non Utilander position in the Transvaal. Without a disruption like that it is possible that the Transvaal at least might become less Afrikaner dominated, in such a way that it might later make it less likely to develop. With a more Utilander/businessmen friendly or dominated Transvaal we might see all sorts of changes, like say more non White, non African importation of labour (e.g. Chinese or Indian) to the Transvaal. Or perhaps an earlier division of the Transvaal into separate units - a rump Afrikaner rural bit and a Utilander urban bit etc

Or maybe post 2nd Boer War PODs - say a more sucessful Milner programme (how I am not sure), or perhaps less fiddling with the post war franchise - IIRC there was some form of agreement that the Afrikaner franchise would be based on size of community rather than white adult electors, which worked in their favour. If that was refused or modified that would dilute Afrikaner political domination of either the provinces or the Union, at least until white females are given the vote.

 

[Typo]

The refugee camps had a significantly lower death rate than the population at large. The killer in them was an outbreak of measles, and the Boer "cure" was boiled human faeces.

Incidently, the camps weren't "gated", and no Boer civilian was confined to them. The worst death rates were those camps which Boer commandoes decided to siege to take their supplies.



There is no evidence that he ever gave such an order. It was offered as a defence by some soldiers found guilty of shooting prisoners, although why Kitchener (commanding a multi-Corps army) would deliver verbal orders to a platoon commander is beyond me.



No-one would care. The German extermination camps on Shark Island weren't exactly secret...

Although at Mafeking, everyone was starving. Had Baden-Powell not withdrawn rations from the non-residents and later the non-combatants Mafeking would have fallen. The rations would only last until January for the Africans and February for the Europeans (who ate different foodstuffs). During the siege 5% of the European (115 out of 2,400) and 10% of the African (700 out of 7,000) population died. However, this again is not even, 2,000 refugee tribesmen were deemed not to be the rationing bodies responsibility and they should go elsewhere, these account for roughly 480 of the 700 African deaths:

White: 4.8%
Black citizens: 4.4%
Black tribesmen: 24%

So the situation isn't one of starving the Africans, it's one of distinguishing between two groups of Africans, one of whom Baden-Powell had legal responsibility for (they were subjects of the Queen) and one of which he didn't...

citation please

 

[67th Tigers]

citation please

...for what?

 

[Typo]

Pretty much everything, but focus on the part where you defend the concentration camps and you might as well as write something in defense of the scorched earth tactics associated with them