No apologies needed sir. Real life takes priority after all.Loving the discussion here, as always.
Apologies for not posting this past week. I've been absolutely buried with essays and other grad school work. I haven't been able to get another update about films from 1981 together quite yet. I may be able to post before the end of this week, but I promise, I am working to get back to Blue Skies as soon as possible.
Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
Loving the discussion here, as always.
Apologies for not posting this past week. I've been absolutely buried with essays and other grad school work. I haven't been able to get another update about films from 1981 together quite yet. I may be able to post before the end of this week, but I promise, I am working to get back to Blue Skies as soon as possible.
I understand real life can get in the way.
No worries Mr. President - Life comes firstLoving the discussion here, as always.
Apologies for not posting this past week. I've been absolutely buried with essays and other grad school work. I haven't been able to get another update about films from 1981 together quite yet. I may be able to post before the end of this week, but I promise, I am working to get back to Blue Skies as soon as possible.
Take you're time, grad school is tuff from what I hear so it's understandable.Loving the discussion here, as always.
Apologies for not posting this past week. I've been absolutely buried with essays and other grad school work. I haven't been able to get another update about films from 1981 together quite yet. I may be able to post before the end of this week, but I promise, I am working to get back to Blue Skies as soon as possible.
Hmmm, so maybe the Troika makes mistakes whilst in power, all while Gorby capitalises by making more allies as the years go on, until maybe around 1986/1987 that he takes over as leader of the Soviet Union
Hmmmm, with the UK Space Agency having been founded in 1971 (as confirmed here), as well as collaborating on joint space flights with NASDA (confirmed here), I wonder if Britain will likely be starting to have it's first astronauts, most likely by searching around the 1980s, before confirming their selection by around the early 1990s.Above: NASA’s logo (left); Artist’s rendering for Freedom - the permanently crewed, Earth-orbiting Space Station designed by NASA as the first “way stop” to further exploration of the cosmos in the Second Space Race (right).
…
Another area of rapid development in the first year of RFK’s term was space exploration.
The president knew all too well that, in the popular imagination, the joint American-Soviet moon landings (the culmination of the Apollo-Svarog missions) were arguably the crowning achievement of his brother’s presidency. Indeed, they might well be the pinnacle of human exploration to that time. They were thought of as a throwback to a simpler time, when the USSR and the USA collaborated on advancement together - for all mankind. But no more.
With Cold War tensions once more on the rise and the A-S missions now a fleeting memory, NASA marched on. In President Kennedy’s mind, he needed to emulate Jack once more, and go one step further: seriously proposing a manned mission to Mars. He would ultimately do this in his first State of the Union address, delivered on January 26th, 1982. In that speech, Kennedy declared, “We can follow our dreams to distant stars, living and working in space for peaceful economic and scientific gain, for the betterment of man.”
But even before that, NASA continued the work it had begun under the Udall administration, namely, work on the design, fabrication, and launch of Freedom - the permanently crewed, Earth-orbiting Space Station designed by NASA as the first “way stop” to further exploration. This was considered by NASA administrator James M. Beggs to be “the next logical step” in space. NASA hoped for the station to function as an orbiting repair shop for satellites, an assembly point for spacecraft, an observation post for astronomers, a microgravity laboratory for scientists, and a microgravity factory for companies.
Following the presidential announcement of the station by President Udall in 1980, NASA began a set of studies to determine the potential uses for the space station, both in research and in industry, in the U.S. or overseas. This led to the creation of a database of thousands of possible missions and payloads; studies were also carried out with a view to supporting potential planetary missions, as well as those in low Earth orbit.
Unfortunately, progress was slow going and expensive.
While the Space Shuttle turned out to be successful in its proposed role as a “space truck” to deliver crews and materials into orbit, the creation and estimated maintenance costs on the space station itself proved somewhat daunting. Beggs and other NASA officials informed the president and sympathetic members of Congress (including Senator John Glenn and other former astronauts) that unless “other sources” of funding were acquired, NASA’s budget would need to balloon drastically in order to see the station completed. Kennedy recalled another reason that Jack had brought the Soviets in on the moonshot: cost-sharing.
Thus, RFK devised a similar notion to help finance Freedom without undoing the good work he’d done erasing the deficit: rope in America’s allies. Over the next several years, Freedom would become a multi-national collaborative project, ultimately involving four space agencies: NASA (United States); NASDA (Japan); ESA (Europe) and the CSA (Canada). This had the added benefit of reinforcing America’s relationships with several of its close allies, just as the Soviet’s attempted answer to Freedom, Equality was grounded and quagmired in development Hell.
Though the station was still several years from lift-off in 1981, right from the get-go, President Kennedy set it off to a strong start.
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A potential candidate I would recommend would be Andy Green (the world land speed record holder in OTL).
Hey, it's no trouble. Take all the time you need. Your life comes first. We'll be waiting, for whatever you'll bring out, the wait will totally be worth it.Loving the discussion here, as always.
Apologies for not posting this past week. I've been absolutely buried with essays and other grad school work. I haven't been able to get another update about films from 1981 together quite yet. I may be able to post before the end of this week, but I promise, I am working to get back to Blue Skies as soon as possible.
By the way, @President_Lincoln, I'm such a big fan of Blue Skies of Camelot. Such a passionate reader of the series!
Oh and while I am here, I would like to ask if there are any plans for the future careers of JFK's 2 youngest: Rosemary Kennedy and Robert Kennedy?
Well, I would like to suggest maybe that they maybe find a calling in the military. Rosemary, I would like to see maybe joining the US Navy like her father and uncle, but her career path takes her to becoming a helicopter pilot, while Robert Kennedy, joins the Marines.
And speaking of military, could it be possible for a chapter dedicated to US military progression, developments (of equipment) and so forth, from the 1960s, right up to RFK coming into office and the task that Secretary of Defence Henry Jackson has to face at the Department of Defence?
All with a focus on each specific branch of the US military, US Army, Navy and Air Force?
Because, with the Vietnam war having been replaced with Cambodia, the US military will have been shaped undoubtably by the lessons of Cambodia.
Also, I would still imagine that there still would have been aerial skirmishes with the Vietnamese People's Air Force, which will introduce a huge shock to those in the USAF who think that missiles on their Phantoms will render plane cannons obsolete (especially missiles designed for intercepting Soviet heavy bombers, not agile MiGs), and that the US Navy will commission the Ault Report that leads to the foundation of the Navy Fighter Weapons School.
Although, on a small note, I had to laugh at one chapter that had George W. Bush, a US Air Force Phantom pilot, launching from the USS Enterprise! Even though it was probably cool, it probably should have made more sense if Dubya was a member of the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing, under the command of Colonel Robin Olds (one of my heroes).
Anyways, with JFK's survival, could it be possible that carrier CV-67 is named maybe the USS Columbia, and thus the only USS John F. Kennedy is a Nimitz class carrier (more specifically CVN-73), named in honour of the former President after his passing?
So, hope you are doing well, and good luck with the next chapter!
That's an interesting Idea. Rosemary could probably become the highest ranking helicopter pilot.
No, I was more thinking of, maybe if there is a Gulf War equivalent, between the UAR and a coalition, Rosemary finds herself doing search and rescue duties for any downed pilots in the Persian Gulf, or she could be doing anti-submarine warfare or plane guard duties.
And that's only if Rosemary is interesting in advancing up through the ranks. She could just simply happy to serve her country as a helicopter pilot, not rise up to become an Admiral.
Okay good point. The author has said that there would be wars ITTL that will be different from OTL. So Rosemary could very well do that.
Take your time Mr. President, we're always here for you to support, encourage, and looking forward to your future and your next chapter updates. Life may not be easy road to take, but always keep your flame of passion no matter what happens.Loving the discussion here, as always.
Apologies for not posting this past week. I've been absolutely buried with essays and other grad school work. I haven't been able to get another update about films from 1981 together quite yet. I may be able to post before the end of this week, but I promise, I am working to get back to Blue Skies as soon as possible.
Again it's important to step back when necessary.
I also had some thoughts regarding X-Men:
1.) Emma Frost: I suggested this before but I think that she could be a somewhat more nuanced character. She was Professor X's "first student" as it were. Her father locked in her a loony bin, and Charles found her. He helped her realize she wasn't insane, and offered to help her control her powers. He also forced her father Winston to back off, and this in turn gave Emma room to grow and stretch her wings. She even found happiness, as well as giving birth to a child (am debating whether Banshee was her love interest, and if Theresa aka Siryn is their daughter.) However, her abusive father re-entered the picture and tried to gain custody of their daughter (he saw his kids as disappointments and felt that Emma's child was the last chance to mold an heir in his image). Xavier was unable to help her, and this made it possible for Shaw to sink his claws into her. Emma ousted her father, but ended up driving her lover away and basically being as domineering as her asshole father.
Emma gets introduced before the rest of the Hellfire Club, and when she meets with Jean she drops hints that, while not enough to give away the game, DO hint at a past history with Charles (for instance she tells Jean "Charles will just let you down in the end", Charles clearly recognizes Emma when they see each other, words are exchanged)
2.) Scott and Jean: They have a child, Rachel. When Rachel's future counterpart comes from the Days of Future Past Timeline there's an interesting dynamic. Future Rachel is more battle hardened and jaded due to her experiences, but she realizes her younger self has the chance to have a happier life. Her rivalry with Selene Gallio is also more pronounced (Selene had a run in with a previous host for the Phoenix, which left her with a wary respect for their power; in addition, the hero from the future opposing the villain from the past has a nice dynamic). I also think the Phoenix Force can be introduced earlier and harmonized. When Jean was dying, the Phoenix approached her and offered her life, drastically increasing her powers. Jean does a lot of good with at first, helping to defeat the mad Emperor D'Ken. However as the power grows she becomes vulnerable to temptation....something the Hellfire Club is all too eager to exploit.
3.) Hellfire Club: Definitely get a more prominent role. They're aristocrats who think that humanity needs to be guided from the shadows. Emma Frost is a member, and Sebastian Shaw is their leader. Shaw is a lot more venal and corrupt, but later stories do give him some redeeming qualities (in OTL he was in love with a woman named Lourdes Chantel, and her death was what killed any good inside him).
4.) Siryn: One thing I thought would always be cool is that she's Emma Frost's daughter with Banshee. She starts out as Emma's good little soldier, but starts to rebel and form her own path in life.
I also had some thoughts regarding X-Men:
1.) Emma Frost: I suggested this before but I think that she could be a somewhat more nuanced character. She was Professor X's "first student" as it were. Her father locked in her a loony bin, and Charles found her. He helped her realize she wasn't insane, and offered to help her control her powers. He also forced her father Winston to back off, and this in turn gave Emma room to grow and stretch her wings. She even found happiness, as well as giving birth to a child (am debating whether Banshee was her love interest, and if Theresa aka Siryn is their daughter.) However, her abusive father re-entered the picture and tried to gain custody of their daughter (he saw his kids as disappointments and felt that Emma's child was the last chance to mold an heir in his image). Xavier was unable to help her, and this made it possible for Shaw to sink his claws into her. Emma ousted her father, but ended up driving her lover away and basically being as domineering as her asshole father.
Emma gets introduced before the rest of the Hellfire Club, and when she meets with Jean she drops hints that, while not enough to give away the game, DO hint at a past history with Charles (for instance she tells Jean "Charles will just let you down in the end", Charles clearly recognizes Emma when they see each other, words are exchanged)
2.) Scott and Jean: They have a child, Rachel. When Rachel's future counterpart comes from the Days of Future Past Timeline there's an interesting dynamic. Future Rachel is more battle hardened and jaded due to her experiences, but she realizes her younger self has the chance to have a happier life. Her rivalry with Selene Gallio is also more pronounced (Selene had a run in with a previous host for the Phoenix, which left her with a wary respect for their power; in addition, the hero from the future opposing the villain from the past has a nice dynamic). I also think the Phoenix Force can be introduced earlier and harmonized. When Jean was dying, the Phoenix approached her and offered her life, drastically increasing her powers. Jean does a lot of good with at first, helping to defeat the mad Emperor D'Ken. However as the power grows she becomes vulnerable to temptation....something the Hellfire Club is all too eager to exploit.
3.) Hellfire Club: Definitely get a more prominent role. They're aristocrats who think that humanity needs to be guided from the shadows. Emma Frost is a member, and Sebastian Shaw is their leader. Shaw is a lot more venal and corrupt, but later stories do give him some redeeming qualities (in OTL he was in love with a woman named Lourdes Chantel, and her death was what killed any good inside him).
4.) Siryn: One thing I thought would always be cool is that she's Emma Frost's daughter with Banshee. She starts out as Emma's good little soldier, but starts to rebel and form her own path in life.
I'm all for having Adrienne King be treated better. I haven't decided for sure yet what I want to do with the Friday franchise ITTL. I think it could be interesting if Cunningham gets his way and the films become an anthology, just sharing the Friday the 13th branding. I know that would mean no Jason Voorhees, but I think that could make for an interesting butterfly... Again, not saying that's what will happen. Just an idea I had.
I will probably post my version of Halloween II sometime today or tomorrow. I'm having a really hard time getting ideas for the other films that some have requested from 1981. I'd be open to someone writing a guest post, if interested. Then I will probably post the next finished update I have, which will take us into 1982.
Interestingly, the Halloween franchise was also planned as an anthology, which is why Halloween 3: Season of the Witch was made IOTL.
Halloween II ITTL
More Like Carpenter’s original idea for this…
Halloween II - Slasher/Horror. Universal Pictures. Directed by Rick Rosenthal, in his directorial debut, written and produced by John Carpenter and Debra Hill, and starring Jamie Lee Curtis and Christopher Lee, who reprise their roles as Laurie Strode and Dr. Sam Loomis, respectively.
Originally conceived during the filming of the original Halloween back in 1978, the sequel takes place three years after the events of the first. Carpenter and Hill decided during the development of the second Halloween that, in Carpenter’s words, “If we were going to do another one, we wanted it to have a purpose. We didn’t just want to do the first one over again.” They decided that in order to keep the script fresh whilst retaining the same protagonists and antagonist, they would opt to shift the setting and supporting cast.
At the start of the sequel, Laurie Strode is now a college student at Northwestern University and living in a high-rise apartment building in nearby Chicago, Illinois. Still deeply traumatized by the events of the first film, Laurie is hesitant to make new friends at college. She maintains a correspondence with Dr. Loomis, who insists that the gunshot wounds he delivered to Michael at the end of the first film were “definitely fatal”. Laurie is less certain, however, as no body was ever discovered by the police.
As Halloween night approaches, Laurie is invited to a party by her roommate and her roommate’s boyfriend, who hope to introduce Laurie to his friend, Chet. Laurie declines, however; Halloween is when her trauma surrounding the events of the first film is at its worst. For comfort and self-defense, Laurie begins to take boxing lessons from a retired prizefighter and World War II veteran, Mortimer “Mort” Douglas (Lee Van Cleef).
Through her lessons with Douglas, Laurie learns that to defeat your opponent, you must first understand him. To do this, Laurie acquires Loomis’ notes on Michael’s psychology. According to Loomis’ observations, Michael has developed an obsession with Laurie and “preserving her innocence.” He has made her into a surrogate for his older sister, whom he murdered after catching her having sex with her boyfriend in their childhood home. He wants to “possess” Laurie and kill her ritualistically, so that, in a sense, he can “preserve” her, before he loses her, just as he “lost” his sister to sin.
We, the viewers, discover through clever framing and dramatic irony that Michael is back and stalking Laurie, watching her through empty apartment units near hers, and spying on her friends as they come and go to various college parties.
When students at Northwestern begin turning up dead, both Laurie and Loomis (albeit more reluctantly) begin to suspect that Michael may be to blame. The film then makes use of its high-rise setting to set up unique kills, turning the hallways and stairwells of the apartment building into a labyrinth of shadows, where death, in the form of Michael, could be lurking around every corner.
In a shocking twist, Dr. Loomis arrives on the scene only to himself be killed when Michael lures him to the building’s boiler room and kills him with a blast of pressurized steam. This forces Laurie to once again face Michael alone. Unlike the first film, however, this time, Laurie is prepared. Having learned to defend herself (and studied Loomis’ notes on Michael), Laurie lures the killer into a trap of her own. She pretends to call Chet over, acting like she is ready to lose her virginity. When Michael appears to stop her, however, she greets him with a shotgun blast to the chest that sends him through a window to his (apparent) demise more than twenty stories below.
Halloween II was another commercial success for the fledgling franchise, scoring $26 million at the box office against a budget of just $2.5 million. Largely, this was due to Lee being willing to work for a relatively small fee of just $250,000 as a favor to Carpenter, whose work he respected.
On the critical front, however, the film was more of a mixed bag. Unlike the original, which was nearly universally praised for codifying the tropes that defined the modern “slasher” film, the sequel seemed… unnecessary to most critics. Roger Ebert, who gave the film two-and-a-half stars out of four praised it for “being more than just a retread of the first”, but questioned “whether this story really needed to be told, for any reason besides lining Universal’s pockets.” Indeed, the script was largely panned, with cheesy lines and a lack of interesting characters besides Laurie herself. Carpenter later admitted to “drinking a lot of beer” while working on the script, and stating that he “felt that there wasn’t much of a story to tell there.” He felt that he’d said all that he needed to about Michael Myers in the first film.
In retrospect, however, the film has undergone something of a critical reevaluation. For one thing, Laurie’s character arc - learning to defend herself and understand the horror in order to confront it - has since come to be seen by some as empowering, especially in the context of a female lead in a horror film in 1981. Rather than the “damsel in distress” of the first film, who needed to be “rescued” by Dr. Loomis, in the sequel, Laurie is self-assured and defeats Michael on her own merits, albeit with the help of a few men (Douglas and Loomis).
The sequel would also (at least for the foreseeable future) wrap up the story of Laurie Strode and Michael Myers. When pressed by Universal for a third film, Carpenter flatly declined unless he was allowed to do something completely different with it, creating more of an anthology. Universal reluctantly agreed.
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Why do I hear the Silver Shamrock theme in my head all of a sudden?
Nice I like the differences you did here from h ow the movie did IOTL.
More Like Carpenter’s original idea for this…
Halloween II - Slasher/Horror. Universal Pictures. Directed by Rick Rosenthal, in his directorial debut, written and produced by John Carpenter and Debra Hill, and starring Jamie Lee Curtis and Christopher Lee, who reprise their roles as Laurie Strode and Dr. Sam Loomis, respectively.
Originally conceived during the filming of the original Halloween back in 1978, the sequel takes place three years after the events of the first. Carpenter and Hill decided during the development of the second Halloween that, in Carpenter’s words, “If we were going to do another one, we wanted it to have a purpose. We didn’t just want to do the first one over again.” They decided that in order to keep the script fresh whilst retaining the same protagonists and antagonist, they would opt to shift the setting and supporting cast.
At the start of the sequel, Laurie Strode is now a college student at Northwestern University and living in a high-rise apartment building in nearby Chicago, Illinois. Still deeply traumatized by the events of the first film, Laurie is hesitant to make new friends at college. She maintains a correspondence with Dr. Loomis, who insists that the gunshot wounds he delivered to Michael at the end of the first film were “definitely fatal”. Laurie is less certain, however, as no body was ever discovered by the police.
As Halloween night approaches, Laurie is invited to a party by her roommate and her roommate’s boyfriend, who hope to introduce Laurie to his friend, Chet. Laurie declines, however; Halloween is when her trauma surrounding the events of the first film is at its worst. For comfort and self-defense, Laurie begins to take boxing lessons from a retired prizefighter and World War II veteran, Mortimer “Mort” Douglas (Lee Van Cleef).
Through her lessons with Douglas, Laurie learns that to defeat your opponent, you must first understand him. To do this, Laurie acquires Loomis’ notes on Michael’s psychology. According to Loomis’ observations, Michael has developed an obsession with Laurie and “preserving her innocence.” He has made her into a surrogate for his older sister, whom he murdered after catching her having sex with her boyfriend in their childhood home. He wants to “possess” Laurie and kill her ritualistically, so that, in a sense, he can “preserve” her, before he loses her, just as he “lost” his sister to sin.
We, the viewers, discover through clever framing and dramatic irony that Michael is back and stalking Laurie, watching her through empty apartment units near hers, and spying on her friends as they come and go to various college parties.
When students at Northwestern begin turning up dead, both Laurie and Loomis (albeit more reluctantly) begin to suspect that Michael may be to blame. The film then makes use of its high-rise setting to set up unique kills, turning the hallways and stairwells of the apartment building into a labyrinth of shadows, where death, in the form of Michael, could be lurking around every corner.
In a shocking twist, Dr. Loomis arrives on the scene only to himself be killed when Michael lures him to the building’s boiler room and kills him with a blast of pressurized steam. This forces Laurie to once again face Michael alone. Unlike the first film, however, this time, Laurie is prepared. Having learned to defend herself (and studied Loomis’ notes on Michael), Laurie lures the killer into a trap of her own. She pretends to call Chet over, acting like she is ready to lose her virginity. When Michael appears to stop her, however, she greets him with a shotgun blast to the chest that sends him through a window to his (apparent) demise more than twenty stories below.
Halloween II was another commercial success for the fledgling franchise, scoring $26 million at the box office against a budget of just $2.5 million. Largely, this was due to Lee being willing to work for a relatively small fee of just $250,000 as a favor to Carpenter, whose work he respected.
On the critical front, however, the film was more of a mixed bag. Unlike the original, which was nearly universally praised for codifying the tropes that defined the modern “slasher” film, the sequel seemed… unnecessary to most critics. Roger Ebert, who gave the film two-and-a-half stars out of four praised it for “being more than just a retread of the first”, but questioned “whether this story really needed to be told, for any reason besides lining Universal’s pockets.” Indeed, the script was largely panned, with cheesy lines and a lack of interesting characters besides Laurie herself. Carpenter later admitted to “drinking a lot of beer” while working on the script, and stating that he “felt that there wasn’t much of a story to tell there.” He felt that he’d said all that he needed to about Michael Myers in the first film.
In retrospect, however, the film has undergone something of a critical reevaluation. For one thing, Laurie’s character arc - learning to defend herself and understand the horror in order to confront it - has since come to be seen by some as empowering, especially in the context of a female lead in a horror film in 1981. Rather than the “damsel in distress” of the first film, who needed to be “rescued” by Dr. Loomis, in the sequel, Laurie is self-assured and defeats Michael on her own merits, albeit with the help of a few men (Douglas and Loomis).
The sequel would also (at least for the foreseeable future) wrap up the story of Laurie Strode and Michael Myers. When pressed by Universal for a third film, Carpenter flatly declined unless he was allowed to do something completely different with it, creating more of an anthology. Universal reluctantly agreed.