Bleeding Florida: An Alternate History
- Thread starter Pellegrino
- Start date
Will follow. As old Abe Licoln once said "The further North you go in Florida, the further South you get."
Nazi Space Spy
Banned
I'm not buying your arguement NSS.
Fun (unrelated) fact; I painted that very picture in my Art II class with horrendous results for the lolz.
As always, a very nice TL.
By the way (on an unrelated note), after doing "After Zhirinovsky: The Maghreb", would you mind doing a similar TL about post-ZRE Philippines please?
I may give it a shot down the line, but to be honest, North Korea, Afghanistan, and Latin America are a tad bit higher on the Zhirinovsky to do list right now as I have more put together with those right now.
Considering by the late 1840s the Astor's were very much in the real estate game, and considering what the young son of Henry Astor feels about his family, it goes without saying that we will have some interesting developments between the Marxists and the Astor family in New York.
NothingNow
Banned
Well yeah, South Florida was mostly settled by people from outside the US and was generally pretty empty until the 1920s. North And South Florida have almost completely different histories and economies really.
And by empty, I mean 6000 people south of the Hillsborough-Pasco county line in 1860, with about 45% in Key West and another 40% in Tampa.
Anyway, this is promising, so subscribed.
Some parts of your thesis may have been discussed elsewhere, as most have been. See Lincoln Survives Assassinationand What if More Active and Effective Reconstruction,.
Well, it's quite a day for me discovering Civil War ATLs I can be bothered to pay attention to. First this, and now a prospect of Red Florida? Under an Astor as Lenin?
I can do without more posts of the current OTL governor by the way.
I identify as a "Californian In Exile" and without fully realizing it did as a kid too. Where I actually lived most of my childhood, even being born in a state of the Confederacy (Texas) was in the South, and the bulk of that was in Panama City, Florida. Seeing any references to actual history happening in Florida gets my attention.
Any chance Astor's Liberated Zone is going to be based at St. Andrew's Bay? Or is he proceeding to a base in central Florida instead?
The Gulf Coast panhandle admittedly doesn't look like a sensible strategic base--if he can get control of the eastern peninsula instead it's more defensible, I'd think. The Panhandle is exposed to vengeful Southerners out of Georgia and Alabama, unfortunately.
Unless of course it is so neglected, that Astor can get away with setting up one base camp after another in such numbers that the filibustering patrollers find themselves outgunned and facing a counterattack to sweep up and turn plantation after plantation into more recruits and supply depots for the Revolution...
I have to say as a Marxist that romantic as it seems, the notion of a black-sheep capitalist buying up slaves to retrain them as liberation army insurgents is light-years away from the thesis of the Manifesto.
I named Astor a "Lenin" without giving it much thought, but actually to make a case to fellow Internationalists, he's going to have to develop arguments parallel to Lenin's, about the peripheral zones of capitalist domination being the weak links where a very broadly conceived proletariat can enjoy early and sweeping success, in order to inspire their brethren in the core industrial areas to move. That's the only "Marxist" justification for such a peripheral strike at the capitalist beast. I imagine Marx and Engels will be rather contemptuous of him, at least as a theorist, though if he can pull off a sustainable liberated zone, I suppose Marx will rethink things somewhat. Still, he's going to see it as a sideshow unless it does indeed trigger Red revolution in some industrial heartland--least likely the USA too.
I can do without more posts of the current OTL governor by the way.
I identify as a "Californian In Exile" and without fully realizing it did as a kid too. Where I actually lived most of my childhood, even being born in a state of the Confederacy (Texas) was in the South, and the bulk of that was in Panama City, Florida. Seeing any references to actual history happening in Florida gets my attention.
Any chance Astor's Liberated Zone is going to be based at St. Andrew's Bay? Or is he proceeding to a base in central Florida instead?
The Gulf Coast panhandle admittedly doesn't look like a sensible strategic base--if he can get control of the eastern peninsula instead it's more defensible, I'd think. The Panhandle is exposed to vengeful Southerners out of Georgia and Alabama, unfortunately.
Unless of course it is so neglected, that Astor can get away with setting up one base camp after another in such numbers that the filibustering patrollers find themselves outgunned and facing a counterattack to sweep up and turn plantation after plantation into more recruits and supply depots for the Revolution...
I have to say as a Marxist that romantic as it seems, the notion of a black-sheep capitalist buying up slaves to retrain them as liberation army insurgents is light-years away from the thesis of the Manifesto.
I named Astor a "Lenin" without giving it much thought, but actually to make a case to fellow Internationalists, he's going to have to develop arguments parallel to Lenin's, about the peripheral zones of capitalist domination being the weak links where a very broadly conceived proletariat can enjoy early and sweeping success, in order to inspire their brethren in the core industrial areas to move. That's the only "Marxist" justification for such a peripheral strike at the capitalist beast. I imagine Marx and Engels will be rather contemptuous of him, at least as a theorist, though if he can pull off a sustainable liberated zone, I suppose Marx will rethink things somewhat. Still, he's going to see it as a sideshow unless it does indeed trigger Red revolution in some industrial heartland--least likely the USA too.
bookmark95
Banned
Was the Astor family involved in anyway with slavery OTL? And what were their politics?
The first I ever heard of the Astor family was when I was kid, I learned about John Jacob Astor IV, and that was because I developed an obsession about the RMS Titanic. He was the richest man aboard, and one of its most famous casualties. He also fought in the Spanish American War too. Do you think he could maybe lead the army of the Socialist Florida in the future of this TL?
The first I ever heard of the Astor family was when I was kid, I learned about John Jacob Astor IV, and that was because I developed an obsession about the RMS Titanic. He was the richest man aboard, and one of its most famous casualties. He also fought in the Spanish American War too. Do you think he could maybe lead the army of the Socialist Florida in the future of this TL?
