Bismarck builds up a political tradition

[OS fan]

German politics after Bismarck's dismission have been correctly described as haphazardly, and leading to World War One; and better let's not talk about what came afterwards.

Unfortunately, Bismarck hadn't groomed a suitable successor, which wasn't the wisest thing to do, given his age.

But what if he had thought about it? After the German unification in 1871, he would've had the necessary time.

How would the better prepared conservative politicians have dealt with the problems after 1890?

Which men in Germany could've become chancellor instead of those who became chancellors in our world?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

German politics after Bismarck's dismission have been correctly described as haphazardly, and leading to World War One; and better let's not talk about what came afterwards.

Unfortunately, Bismarck hadn't groomed a suitable successor, which wasn't the wisest thing to do, given his age.

But what if he had thought about it? After the German unification in 1871, he would've had the necessary time.

How would the better prepared conservative politicians have dealt with the problems after 1890?

Which men in Germany could've become chancellor instead of those who became chancellors in our world?

Well it will have to be someone capable of manipulating Wilhelm II tactfully enough that Willie thinks its his own idea and thats asking quite alot as he liked to run the show with Bismarck gone. Or should he had very firm opinions on any number of things and said so on most of them.

 

[dummnutzer]

German foreign policy committed many fumbles, but even a competent one could not solve the main problem:

British intolerance of a rising Germany.

Bismarck himself said in his later years that the only way to satisfy England was to de-industrialize Germany. Disraeli called for a dismemberment of Germany in 1872.

Add an Anglophile Kaiser with an inferiority complex, and one gets problems ... whoever serves as Reichskanzler.

 

[Codae]

German foreign policy committed many fumbles, but even a competent one could not solve the main problem:

British intolerance of a rising Germany.

Bismarck himself said in his later years that the only way to satisfy England was to de-industrialize Germany. Disraeli called for a dismemberment of Germany in 1872.

Add an Anglophile Kaiser with an inferiority complex, and one gets problems ... whoever serves as Reichskanzler.

How do you satisfy Wales?

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

You could change the equation to something where Bismarck realizes that Willie II is going to be a disaster, and therefore the other institutions need to be strengthened to keep him from interfering. I think the problem was "strengthening institutions" means more democratic reforms, which would reduce Bismarck's power, which would mean the whole exercise was useless. Bismarck wanted power, and got it through manipulating the hell out of Willie I, that is using royal power to get what he wanted. He needs to create a powerful Reichskanzler position that is basically independent of the Kaiser, relying on some other legitimacy. I would say the easiest thing would be direct election, but that is entirely too democratic for Bismarck. Maybe selection by the Reichstag, but again, too democratic. Perhaps election by the upper house of Reichstag for fixed terms?

 

[dummnutzer]

How do you satisfy Wales?

Bismarck used the term England despite having been to London and being likely well versed in correct nomenclature. I am not going to modify a historical quote to appease some pedant from perfidious Albion.

Such nonsense only leads to replacing ´a big step for mankind´ with ´a big step for humanity´.

 

[larpsidekick]

German foreign policy committed many fumbles, but even a competent one could not solve the main problem:

British intolerance of a rising Germany.

Bismarck himself said in his later years that the only way to satisfy England was to de-industrialize Germany. Disraeli called for a dismemberment of Germany in 1872.

Add an Anglophile Kaiser with an inferiority complex, and one gets problems ... whoever serves as Reichskanzler.

It's not british intolerence of Germany - it's the intolerence of anyone being able to defeat the RN, and so starve the country. British politicians saw the RN as analogous not to the KM but to the German army - and so saw the possession by German (but, in fact, anyone) of a Navy which could defeat the RN as something targeted at GB - they didn't need it to defend their home, so why have it, other than as a knife pointed at Britains jugular? Hence the paranoia, and the getting into bed with long standing enemies and rivals in France and Russia.

Also, Bismark did attempt to groom a successor - but his son wasn't able to take the office - and was probably about as good as Richard Cromwell.

 

[Codae]

Bismarck used the term England despite having been to London and being likely well versed in correct nomenclature. I am not going to modify a historical quote to appease some pedant from perfidious Albion.

Such nonsense only leads to replacing ´a big step for mankind´ with ´a big step for humanity´.

Actually, I'm American.

 

[Rick Robinson]

It's not british intolerence of Germany - it's the intolerence of anyone being able to defeat the RN, and so starve the country. British politicians saw the RN as analogous not to the KM but to the German army - and so saw the possession by German (but, in fact, anyone) of a Navy which could defeat the RN as something targeted at GB

Interesting to note that the buildup of the US Navy at this same time caused vastly less anxiety in Britain. The difference, so far as I can see, that TR did not go around using anti-British rhetoric every chance, so the USN was not seen as aimed at Britain.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Interesting to note that the buildup of the US Navy at this same time caused vastly less anxiety in Britain. The difference, so far as I can see, that TR did not go around using anti-British rhetoric every chance, so the USN was not seen as aimed at Britain.

It is very interesting how early the British discounted the US as either a threat to Britain or the Royal Navy. Since the formal adoption of the Two-Power Standard the US was never included in it. The Two-Power Standard was very eurocentric in its direction.

However, to address an earlier statement, the British did see the Germans as greater commercial rivals than military rivals as early as 1871.

 

[fortyseven]

Would it be possible for Bismark's successor to also be Willie II's good/longtime friend?

 

[David S Poepoe]

Would it be possible for Bismark's successor to also be Willie II's good/longtime friend?

Not likely. We've got a pretty good idea of the typical men that Wilhelm surrounded himself with and its not a positive picture.

 

[Mr. BoJangles]

have willie die of a brain aneurysm as a young adult.

 

[HueyLong]

Interesting to note that the buildup of the US Navy at this same time caused vastly less anxiety in Britain. The difference, so far as I can see, that TR did not go around using anti-British rhetoric every chance, so the USN was not seen as aimed at Britain.

The US did use anti-British rhetoric at every turn- twisting the lion's tail.

 

[dummnutzer]

There was much more investment of the UK in the US than in Germany - the difference was staggering, but I have no data at hand. Germany should have tried to get more UK investment, one tends not to feel threatened by a nation one owns.

To add some apt quotations:

´The most significant event of the 20th century will be that the fact that the North Americans speak English.´
´God has a special providence for fools, drunks, and the United States of America.´

Prince Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck, Duke of Lauenburg