Been Winning So Long, I've Lost It - The Long War TL

One minor quibble- Iraq didn't have usable stocks of WMD in OTL. (It did have a few degraded munitions in weapons dumps. Did whoever was in charge try and revive the program when the bombs started falling? (Even then, chemical weapons production is easily noticed.) Or, could someone have bought the materials on the black market?
 
Yeah, I think we've all been waiting So Long, we've Lost it. It's been what 8 months since the last update lol, any chance to seeing this great Timeline make a comeback?
 
I really do hope this continues. I'd love to see it go far. Hm, it would be nice to see more of North Korea, SK, and Japan. Especially considering, if memory serves correct, Japan was hit in the world-wide 9/11 attack. At least, I think that happened. My memory does play tricks on me sometimes. Anyway, I do hope this continues. It is quite good.
 
One minor quibble- Iraq didn't have usable stocks of WMD in OTL. (It did have a few degraded munitions in weapons dumps. Did whoever was in charge try and revive the program when the bombs started falling? (Even then, chemical weapons production is easily noticed.) Or, could someone have bought the materials on the black market?

Saddam started stockpiling them by reviving the program/purchasing on the black market in 2000, because McCain made more belligerent statements about Iraq during his campaign.

Yeah, I think we've all been waiting So Long, we've Lost it. It's been what 8 months since the last update lol, any chance to seeing this great Timeline make a comeback?

Sorry everyone! I didn't get back to it spring semester and then I was in Argentina for a month during the summer... But I'm back now and hopefully I can start updating again.

I really do hope this continues. I'd love to see it go far. Hm, it would be nice to see more of North Korea, SK, and Japan. Especially considering, if memory serves correct, Japan was hit in the world-wide 9/11 attack. At least, I think that happened. My memory does play tricks on me sometimes. Anyway, I do hope this continues. It is quite good.

Yes, Japan was hit. There will be more about the DPRK and ROK and especially Japan. There will be huge differences in the Asian balance of power.

Thank you everyone for the good wishes and comments. The next post will be catching up in Pakistan and another, really big, terrorist attack.
 

maverick

Banned
Is this going to be back? because if that's the case, I have some ideas for South America and Argentina in particular...which given the use of butterflies ITTL, would fit right in with other changes...
 
Just read the entire timeline. Great stuff, wish you'd continue it to 2009. I wonder if Iran will be invaded... If so, this article from 2006 might be a good read.

A lot of Very Bad Things happen in 2005. Some of them to Iran. Still haven't decided how it will all play out... I do want to continue the timeline to 2009, if only to emphasize how very different history would be.

Is this going to be back? because if that's the case, I have some ideas for South America and Argentina in particular...which given the use of butterflies ITTL, would fit right in with other changes...

It will, not sure when... I'd be interested to hear your ideas about South America and particularly Argentina, after spending a month there I feel rather bad about skimming over it in this TL and others I've worked on.
 
[FONT=&quot]PART XXX:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] May 2004 – November 2004[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“[/FONT]The blade itself incites to violence.”
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Homer’s Iliad[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]---[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“For all our criticism of the Pakistani Taliban and al Qaeda, they have correctly identified this: Pakistan is no longer a sovereign state. The Pakistani government no longer exercises control over vast stretches of the country. Our presence in the FATA and NWFP has encouraged popular resentment against our government and Kayani, who has almost entirely lost credibility with Musharraf’s nationalist PML-Q, Sharif’s conservative PML-N, and anyone to the political “right” of them. The Pakistani middle class abhors our presence for polarizing the political environment between western control and sharia. The military has lost credibility in most parts of the country. The PPP and Kayani’s strong relationship has grown more strained, too. The failure of Kayani and the military to fulfill their promises is a dire threat to NATO goals in the War on Terror.”[/FONT]
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Foreign Policy[/FONT][FONT=&quot], July 2004[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]American forces launched major offensives in the FATA and NWFP throughout the summer. By then, the plan of co-opting tribal forces had seriously backfired, with the ISI refusing to cease support for lashkars operating in Afghanistan and the US losing its grip on anti-Taliban lashkars in Pakistan. More and more Pakistanis, from whatever province, saw the US occupiers as far worse than the Taliban. Military discipline broke down across the Afghan border. Pakistani troops simply could not be mustered to fight in counterinsurgencies against their own population. The overland supply route via Peshawar failed and increasing numbers of Pakistani arms fell into the hands of the Taliban and various other insurgent groups. Public defections by officers and government-sponsored lashkars lead to the termination of NATO-tribal cooperation in Pakistan.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The PPP, in concert with the opposition PML-N, lead parliament to demand the withdrawal of foreign forces from Pakistan. They cited Kayani’s decision to de facto cede control of the NWFP, FATA, and now parts of Baluchistan near Quetta to American troops. Drone strikes, growing more and more popular, now ranged across Pakistan, only some of them coordinated with Islamabad. Despite bloody fighting across Pakistan’s hinterlands, “Punjabi Taliban” – unaffiliated with tribal groups and operating out of the heartland of modern Pakistan – launched major attacks, involving car-bombings and assaults on the military and police. Highway traffic through Pakistan became a dangerous enterprise, while major cities across the country suffered terrorist violence. Pakistan was in crisis, but the parliament was nearly as anti-American as it was anti-Taliban. Another coup seemed to be in the works, and westerners feared that if Islamists rose up, the already unreliable military and state would simply stand aside. Seymour Hersh reported that McCain and Blair had plans to install Benazir Bhutto as Pakistani President on the force of arms, should a hostile government emerge.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Insurgents in Pakistan cut off the M-1 highway to the capital, inciting fears that the capital Islamabad is the Taliban’s next target. While Pakistani troops have been summoned to defend the capital, the government is in high-level negotiations to bargain for Pakistan’s survival. In the mean-time, a cease-fire between Pakistani troops and the Taliban is in effect, and Kayani has requested that the US reduce its own combat operations, especially drone strikes that now occur routinely in the country’s heartland…”[/FONT]
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The New York Times, September 1st, 2004[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Approval ratings for McCain have only risen since the primaries ended and the debates started. Despite Kerry’s criticism of McCain’s war management in Afghanistan and Pakistan, he hasn’t offered a plan with more credibility to the voters…”[/FONT]
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]CNN, September 8th, 2004[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“The first device was a modified 25 kiloton warhead, originally a simple gravity bomb designed for a Pakistani fighter aircraft. Between those detonated and those recovered, al Qaeda and related forces stole five nuclear warheads of this type… The largest theft, however, was a nuclear warhead originally destined for the Shaheen-II MRBM. The Shaheen-II never reached operability, as US airstrikes had completely destroyed its production facilities. The 500 kiloton warheads, however, were “unaccounted” for but operable. One of these was seized…”[/FONT]
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Stephen Brewer, The Age of Madness[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Late September: there are major Taliban offensives across the south, from Baluchistan, while the east remains in bloody stagnation. American troops continue to operate on both sides of the border there, their battles on the Pakistani side far more intense than those in Afghanistan. Pashtuns were suspicious and resentful of the Americans on both sides of the border, and American successes in Afghanistan were to some extent bought at the price of blood in Pakistan. In October, the war seemed to stabilize in Afghanistan, and elections were held as scheduled. Outside of Pashtunistan, the country stood behind Massoud, while within those regions a variety of challengers split the vote and in many Taliban areas, few voted at all. Disparities in turnout were a major problem. McCain spun the election as a win, however, and the US plunged head on into the Presidential elections of 2004.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The final outcome was 317-221. The country was still firmly behind their war President, despite worries about the war’s conduct and potential longevity. November 2 passed without incident, despite heightened security and fears of a terrorist attack.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]November 3rd saw a mushroom cloud rising over Boston.[/FONT]
 

maverick

Banned
Holy Fucking shit! This is back! and in the most dramatic and unexpeted way possible! :eek::D:eek:




You'll have my ideas for Latin America in the morning, sir...:p;)
 
Oh, my, my, my. I like this a lot.

Will you have anything on the Ukraine election?

The conspiracy theorists in this TL will be blaming everything on McCain.
 
WTF Blochead...Wow, it's great to see this timeline back again but I was not expecting it to be such a big cliffhanger lol. Keep it comming
 

FDW

Banned
My god and you just put it there right at the end, so inconspicuously Boston BOSTON BOSTON!!!!!!!!!
 
Oh, my, my, my. I like this a lot.

Will you have anything on the Ukraine election?

The conspiracy theorists in this TL will be blaming everything on McCain.

Yes, I will deal with Russia and surrounding states separately. McCain in OTL surrounds himself with anti-Russian hawks so Russia policy will be a lot more complicated, even though the US and Russia have a greater convergence of interests on Islamic terrorism.

My god and you just put it there right at the end, so inconspicuously Boston BOSTON BOSTON!!!!!!!!!

I figured if I was going to destroy a city, I should destroy one I know... Well, that and it makes more sense given the delivery methods than an inland one.

A nuke will triger an escalation over Taliban controlled territory.

Well, that and then some. Trust me, there will be some enormous changes. This TL's "Iraq" moment is yet to come. The nuking will provide a sort of tangential justification for some policies the hawks in the McCain administration already want to implement.
 
[FONT=&quot]PART XXX:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]November 3rd saw a mushroom cloud rising over Boston.[/FONT]

Holy F***!

Great time-line Blochead, just read the entire thing and its another must read thread.

What is Australia's involvement in the war other than helping the Philippines?

Maybe you could start a small war between Australia & indonesia, After a terror attack funded/supported by indonesian interests that would lead to union-hood for East Timor, Papua New Guinea for protection and maybe the war may see the capture and union-hood for North & South Moluccas and West Papua, That also may lead to a much bigger ADF (Australian Defence Force) with maybe even a Royal Australian Marine Corps being formed.

See Ya

Mark
 
Last edited:
Blochead said:
The first device was a modified 25 kiloton warhead, originally a simple gravity bomb designed for a Pakistani fighter aircraft. Between those detonated and those recovered, al Qaeda and related forces stole five nuclear warheads of this type… The largest theft, however, was a nuclear warhead originally destined for the Shaheen-II MRBM. The Shaheen-II never reached operability, as US airstrikes had completely destroyed its production facilities. The 500 kiloton warheads, however, were “unaccounted” for but operable. One of these was seized…”

Oh dear. This is very, very bad.

Blochead said:
The final outcome was 317-221. The country was still firmly behind their war President, despite worries about the war’s conduct and potential longevity. November 2 passed without incident, despite heightened security and fears of a terrorist attack.

I should say so.

Blochead said:
November 3rd saw a mushroom cloud rising over Boston.

:eek:

Well Pakistan, it was nice knowing you. After this their best case scenario is going to be a complete loss of independance and extended de-facto colonial rule by the US under a UN mandate.

I think we all know what the worst case scenario is.

Excellent, chillingly plausible timeline, my good sir. Consider me subscribed.
 
Blochead said:
I figured if I was going to destroy a city, I should destroy one I know... Well, that and it makes more sense given the delivery methods than an inland one.

True. Also, since security in NY & DC would no doubt be on the lookout to prevent just such an event, al Qaeda might think it would be easier to sneak their little toy into a different city.

Blochead said:
Well, that and then some. Trust me, there will be some enormous changes. This TL's "Iraq" moment is yet to come. The nuking will provide a sort of tangential justification for some policies the hawks in the McCain administration already want to implement.

Iran, right? There's no way in hades the west will let them get the bomb after this, and McCain will never accept any of their assurences that they aren't trying to build it. I see a declaration of war, a draft and a full on bloodbath in their near future as NATO tries to take the country. Perhaps with Russian help.

And more American (or Brit? Or AUSSIE?? Oh damn) cities going up. Guaranteed.

Nasty. Oh, this one is headed straight for For All Time-level NAS-tay! Once again, kudos!
 
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