Well, if there is armistice in 1916, maybe. But if the war is over by Christmas?
Austro-Hungary in a Central Powers victorious world
- Thread starter The Federalist
- Start date
Well, if there is armistice in 1916, maybe. But if the war is over by Christmas?
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
The only problem with this is that it will only work so long as the state is absolutistish. It will be impossible to stop democratic development which will almost inevitably split up the empire - the army is made of voters, after all.
Redbeard
Banned
A constitutional Monarch might have enough moral and symbolic power to keep the empire together, but when it comes to the time of electronic mass media it becomes very vulnerable, as you can't any longer hide if the Monarch is a twit - you might even argue that with the media focus it is impossible not to look like a twit. The case of the British Monarchy is IMHO a good example of how it works in both the early and late fase.
A republic will be vulnerable from the start, but that sadly will not keep it from being formed. It might start with a strong political leader a la Tito, but when he is gone it is over and it would be difficult to have a successor with sufficient legitemacy to carry the coherrency building factor.
I do wonder however if a Danube Empire or Republic, if/when turned more democratic, would become the great hope of the (Catholic) Slavs? First the Hungarians are "tamed" ( in common interest with the German Austrians), but next the German speaking will of course be pressed by the Slavic majority. I could imagine Austria getting an Anschluss with Germany and the Slavs going on in a Danube Monarchy or Republic - a kind of Yugoslavia on steroids - and in danger of ending up likewise, but could also (before that) be quite a significant factor in European politics.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Max Sinister
Banned
Maybe you confuse it with the "Small Entente" (Czechoslovakia, Romania, Yugoslavia)?
Max Sinister
Banned
Some people in Poland had the idea of forming a "Third Europe" from the Baltic to Adria and Black Sea.
The Obrenovic were the guys I had in mind, but I'm unsure if there is still some claimant around. Were they not killed in a coup?
According to the Tripartite Alliance, A-H and Italy would have to compensate each other in case of change in the status of the Balkans. This did not happen when Bosnia was annexed by A-H; after the Balkan wars, Italy wanted a protectorate over Northern Albania, and was strongly opposed by A-H; during the Italo-Turkish war, A-H flirted quite obviously with the Ottomans. Montenegro annexed (and then was forced by the powers to relinquish) just Scutari, IIRC
Grey Wolf
Donor
They were but there was some guy calling himself Prince George Obrenovic who was a bastard IIRC. There was also the late queen's family but since she got chucked out of the window I don't think the fact that she and Alexander Ob had made them official heirs counted for much.
I'll see what I can find on George
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf
Donor
Third son of King Milan
3d) [by Artemisia Christic] Obren Christic (1889- ), who took the name Prince George Obrenovic; he attempted to gain the throne in 1906
from
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=102907
and
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/yugoslavia.html
Amusingly I paid for the first answer back in the days when I had things like credit cards !
I see his dates are 1889- unspecified. I rather suspect he is dead now or he would be 118 - feasible I suppose, but rather unlikely
In 1918 he would be an ideal late 20s
And he is definitely his father's son, even if not a legitimate one
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
3d) [by Artemisia Christic] Obren Christic (1889- ), who took the name Prince George Obrenovic; he attempted to gain the throne in 1906
from
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=102907
and
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/yugoslavia.html
Amusingly I paid for the first answer back in the days when I had things like credit cards !
I see his dates are 1889- unspecified. I rather suspect he is dead now or he would be 118 - feasible I suppose, but rather unlikely
In 1918 he would be an ideal late 20s
And he is definitely his father's son, even if not a legitimate one
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Obren looks nice for a puppet Serbia. I'm almost surprised that A=H did not put him up as king of Serbia after the occupation of the country in 1916
Funny the missing death date: I would imagine the titles on the newspapers. King Obren of Serbia celebrates his 90th year of reign. What comes after a diamond Jubilee?
Funny the missing death date: I would imagine the titles on the newspapers. King Obren of Serbia celebrates his 90th year of reign. What comes after a diamond Jubilee?
Why? You keep saying that absolutist rule is a must- whereas it was that which ensured the destruction of empire.
In 1914 Bohemia and Moravia had 75 percent of black coal mining, 60 of iron industry, 64 of machineworks, 85 percent of cotton industry, 41 of wool industry, 100 percent glass and porcelain works and also 91 percent of sugar production and 45 of all breweries (Ferdinand Seibt, Deutschland und Tschechen).
Czechs had quite large stake in being in empire and proftting from the large market. OTher nations too benefited from it.
I'd agree with most people that AH would dissolve sooner or later.
A point noone saw before: Germany might not be that interested in keeping AH alive. With AH dissolving, there'd be German Austria, Bohemia, Moravia and Slovenia ready for annexation by Germany.
The result of a dissolving AH would probably look prety much like South-Eastern Europe in 1942: small countries, dominated by Germany economically and politically. These smaller countries would be more stable than AH and weaker. Furthermore there'd be some thrones available for German princes: kingdom of Hungary, kingdom of Croatia, kingdom of Bosnia, kingdom of Slovakia... (I don't see the Germans allowing for a Jugoslavia when they could have a couple of smaller states). Instead of a great power, which AH would still be - more or less - Germany would get a backyard of small states competing with each other but under German dominance.
A point noone saw before: Germany might not be that interested in keeping AH alive. With AH dissolving, there'd be German Austria, Bohemia, Moravia and Slovenia ready for annexation by Germany.
The result of a dissolving AH would probably look prety much like South-Eastern Europe in 1942: small countries, dominated by Germany economically and politically. These smaller countries would be more stable than AH and weaker. Furthermore there'd be some thrones available for German princes: kingdom of Hungary, kingdom of Croatia, kingdom of Bosnia, kingdom of Slovakia... (I don't see the Germans allowing for a Jugoslavia when they could have a couple of smaller states). Instead of a great power, which AH would still be - more or less - Germany would get a backyard of small states competing with each other but under German dominance.
Susano
Banned
If Germany was so intersted in those territories it wouldnt have been allied with AH in the furst place. Besides, also pragmatically it is much better to keep the whole as an ally instead of gaining one half and have the other as enemy then. No, really, IMO there is little indication Germany would let AH fall if it can also help prevent its dissolution.
You got me wrong. I don't say that Germany is so interested in these territories in the first place. But AH will have enourmous problems. And maybe AH will collapse. Then I think Germany might be willing to take the chance.
Why should the rest be an enemy? AH falling appart would mean that exactly the half you say would be an enemy wants to dissolve the empire, and Germany just gives them what they want. Germany gives each nationality its independence (besides the Czechs, of course), and the Austrians are gratiously allowed to join the empire, which they wanted IOTL after WWI. Where's an enemy here?
If AH starts to collapse, the Germans could step in to organize a peaceful outcome, to negotiate the borders between the new states. The outcome would most likely be a 1942-like Balkan-region, hence smaller states allied with Germany presumably under German princes, not a great power allied with the Germans.