August Wind

Daffy Duck

Banned
Comment

Jim Smitty said:
Washington DC, August 7 1915

President Charles Hughes was currently meeting with the four key members of his cabinet. They were here for one important reason, to finally nail down the US aims with its war with the Mexicans. President Hughes had left a lot of it in the air as he wanted to see what way the wind was blowing before he nailed down the war aims of the United States of America. However following the news of POW Massacres the tone of the war changed. People had been mad when the war had started as American Blood had been shed on American Soil, but the POW Massacres? It had raised a fury unlike anything most people had ever seen before.

Now with the US building the largest army it had ever fielded since the Civil War, and the volunteer units that had been formed before the draft now reaching the front it was a question what was the end game for the United States. That’s why President Hughes had Secretary of State Hiram Johnson, Secretary of Treasury Frank Orren Lowden, Secretary of War Henry Stimson, and Secretary of the Navy Theodore Roosevelt in this meeting. They all knew one thing, the American Public was crying for a pound of flesh. Some like Debs and the Socialist Party was calling for the war to end, but the mass majority of the public wanted revenge on Mexico now. First they killed civilians now they killed POWs. If they weren’t taught a lesson now who knew how bad this would get. They wanted to teach the Mexicans a lesson they would never forget.

The big question that came to mind was how many Mexicans could the US Senate take in lands to be annexed and agree to it. The American public was pissed at the Mexicans and didn’t want a large new population of Mexicans with American citizenship. They figure one million might be pushing it beyond the limits. 750 thousand was still a lot, but it might be possible to get the treaty out of the senate. Using the 1910 Mexican census gave them a good idea what they could annex into the United States. That was Baja, Sonora, and Chihuahua. That would add about 220 thousand square miles of land to the United States and Sonora and Chihuahua would like with a little bit of work could become valuable parts of the United States of America. Baja was for better projection abilities into the Pacific but otherwise that was worthless. They would barely clear their own limit of 750 thousand people, but it still cleared it. Beside not all of those were Mexican Citizens. Chihuahua had been a populate location for Europeans, so that helped.

Another thing was annexing that much of Mexico was bound to cause issues in Mexico. They then want to have to deal with a Mexico that was hell bent on revenge either. But on the flip side the US really didn’t want Mexico as its neighbor at this point either. After thinking about this question they decided to create two buffer states to keep Mexico at arm’s length. The first puppet and buffer state would be the Republic of the Rio Grande made up of Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas. The second would be The Republic of Durango made up of Durango and Sinaloa. Both of these puppets would act as a buffer to any ideas of revenge that made be drawn up in Mexico City after the end this war. They would also be used to make money for Americans. Because anything else would be un-American.

Back on Mexico it was deciding how much economic benefit the US could pump out of Mexico to help pay for the cost of this war. It had been decided that Mexico would forfeit its claim on Clipperton Island and that would be folded into the Baja Territory to be created at the end of the war. They also decided to force Mexico to grant the United States most favoured nation status. However that would be an one way street. They had also decided to force the Mexicans to pay to the families of the dead POWs and civilians 25,000 dollars for their lost love ones. Payment was to be either in US Dollars or in hard money. It was decided that this would have to happen within five years of the peace treaty being signed or the US would occupy Veracruz and take the money from tariffs there.

Yes it was harsh treaty for the Mexicans. They knew it once more. However it was lighter than what some were calling for. However with Mexico losing over a quarter of it’s land and have to puppet states between it and the US it was believed that this would be enough to keep from having the Mexicans cause problems at a later date in time.
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Taking Baja = Good Move
This should be easy...

Trying to take Sonora & Chihuahua - Really Bad Move
Like I stated in a previous post, this is some of the toughest terrain in Mexico. The army can take the cities with no problem but the remaining Mexican forces, local rebel forces and indigenous peoples will take to the mountains and stage hit-and-run raids against the US Forces that will not be easy to counter. Look for the Army to free the remaining Chiricahua Apache from prison, recruit Apache scouts from the other tribes and recruit Navajos as well. They were, by far and away, the best scouts the US ever had in the Southwest.
Even with that, the army and government is going to have an extremely tough time taming this land. It's always been (and still is) lawless and wild.


Buffer state along the Rio Grande - Doable, but tough. The best course of action would be to recruit locals to administer and run these lands. Don't use the Army or any American administrator. You'll never fully Americanize these areas and just wind up pissing off the local population and driving them to rebellion. The Frontera has it's own culture thats still in place, even to this day.

Puppet state in Durango and Sinaloa? Good luck with that. Be sure to bring plenty of body bags.
 
Jim Smitty

Jim Smitty

St. Petersburg, August 31 1915

Czar Nicholas II was currently looking at the map. He didn’t see much hope. At least Grand Duke Nicholas Nikolaevich had the common courtesy to ventilate his head after the collapse of the Northern Front and the fall of Minsk two days ago. Nicholas II had named himself the Supreme Commander of the Western Front then and he was looking for a way to reserve the fate of the Russian Army and Russia in general and saw nothing that would allow him to this task.

What had doomed the Northern Front was an order from Nicholas II in a failed attempt to reserve the failure of the Brusilov Offensive against the Austro Hungarians and Romanians. He ordered three corps of infantry to be stripped from the Northern Front and another two corps from the Central Front to be moved to support the Southern Front which was under the command of Brusilov. Nicholas was pleased with the gains made by Brusilov early in his offensive, but became worry when the Central Powers counter attacked and started to reserve the gains made by Brusilov. He mistakenly believed that the Germans would have to shift more forces to deal with the French invasion of Belgium than they really did. Then the Germans have broken the lines and it started a rout that his officers were still trying to stem. However this was trying to damn the mighty Volga with nothing more than a shovel.

The Central Front was also in danger of collapse unless something was done soon. As in soon, five hours ago would been better. However if an able commander who could act decisively the Central Front could be saved from collapse, however no such commander was at hand. The Russian General Staff was rotten through and through and the war with Germany had been the kick needed to bring it down. Brusilov was the only senior commander who had shown promise in this whole war and he had possibly lost the war in Nicholas’ mind. That was unfair to Brusilov who had advised against the massive troop moves done by Nicholas. In truth only the Southern Front was the only putting up a skilled retreat at the moment.

The war was lost now Nicholas knew. He should had taken the British up on their offer to broker a peace, but he had to throw the dice one more time. It was time to pack it in now. His Okhrana agents had been reporting that the fires of revolution were one again burning. With the Black Sea having been shut down by the Ottomans; food stuffs were becoming hard to come by now. Even the efforts of to bring food in from Vladivostok was failing with the Germans performing a blockade of that port. Arkhangelsk wasn’t able to handle the needs of his empire. His fleet was cowering in port and his army was on the run across the map. It was time to pack it in and go about bring the fires of revolution under control once again.

However the sound of gun shots brought Nicholas away from the map table and to the window of the Winter Palace.
 
Count Valerian

Count Valerian

Banned
Red Revolution

And so it begins: the beginning of the end.

As the Russian Eagle burns, the German Eagle ascends to the Heavens. Hoch der Kaiser, Deutschland Uber Alles...
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
Count Valerian said:
Well at least Anastasia is safe in London. I doubt the Romanov Massacre can be averted at this point, but at least the dynasty is safe...for one more generation at least.
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Yeah for at least one more generation the Romanov dynasty will survive. That's unless of course whoever takes over Russia doesn't decided to make sure no one can claim the Russian throne if things go sour for the new regime.
 
Count Valerian

Count Valerian

Banned
Admiral Halsey said:
Yeah for at least one more generation the Romanov dynasty will survive. That's unless of course whoever takes over Russia doesn't decided to make sure no one can claim the Russian throne if things go sour for the new regime.
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That would be stupid...they'd be breaking asylum, and Anastasia is the Kaiser's niece (a few times removed) as well as the last of a Royal/Imperial House. Once the war is over, I imagine any such actions might well be seen as an insult to the Ruling Houses of Europe. If Germany wins (and they probably will), and considering how the French Republic assassinated King Albert and stained the image of republicanism (in Europe at least), then Republican/Soviet Russia which tried to/assassinated the Grand Duchess would bring down at least the wrath of the German Eagle on themselves. It might not be for a while, since they have to recover from the current war first, but Royalist Europe will remember.
 
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Count Valerian

Count Valerian

Banned
Early

Russian Revolution is early...will it follow OTL course, I wonder...? Republicans who want to continue the war, followed by Communists who make peace with Germany...?
 

Pylon_Mountain

Historyman 14 said:
I don't get why carry on a war whine you are in the middle of a civil war?
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Before WWI the Russians were modernizing using a tremendous amount of French investment. The Republican government was worried that if they failed to honor their military commitments all that money would dry up no matter who won the war.
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Reminders here,under no circumstances would Anastasia gain the throne unless ALL the male members of the House of Romanov(born of morganatic marriage or have given up their succession rights) dies.

Unless Michael or Alexei got out alive,the next claimant will be Cyril.
 
Count Valerian

Count Valerian

Banned
darthfanta said:
Reminders here,under no circumstances would Anastasia gain the throne unless ALL the male members of the House of Romanov(born of morganatic marriage or have given up their succession rights) dies.

Unless Michael or Alexei got out alive,the next claimant will be Cyril.
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Didn't his claim get contested by most of the Romanov survivors in OTL? The exiles could and IMHO should suspend/edit their succession laws (retroactively if need be) and name Anastasia as heiress to the Russian Throne since as a main line descendant (Nicholas' daughter) there's no questioning her legitimacy (?)...not sure if that's the proper word to use here.

Oh and...Alexei is dead. He had a fall in a past update, and his death was what prompted Empress Alexandra to take Grand Duchess Anastasia on an extended visit to her relatives in London.
 

Dain

It seems a bit sudden to go from some secret service reports about rising unrest directly to a successful revolutionary attack on the palace... it's not a given that the Tzar is dead already.
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Count Valerian said:
Didn't his claim get contested by most of the Romanov survivors in OTL? The exiles could and IMHO should suspend/edit their succession laws (retroactively if need be) and name Anastasia as heiress to the Russian Throne since as a main line descendant (Nicholas' daughter) there's no questioning her legitimacy (?)...not sure if that's the proper word to use here.

Oh and...Alexei is dead. He had a fall in a past update, and his death was what prompted Empress Alexandra to take Grand Duchess Anastasia on an extended visit to her relatives in London.
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It's a fundamental law established by Paul I.The exiles other than the most senior surviving male,who would be the heir,has no right to edit any law.The house of Romanov doesn't give anyone the right to edit the law other than the emperor and laws can't be changed retroactively otherwise a law isn't a law.The moment Nicholas and Michael are dead,Cyril would be emperor automatically.Apart from that,why would the surviving members of the imperial family actually change the law in favour of Anastasia?Nicholas and his wife are thoroughly discredited at this point.Not to mention,why would they want a woman on the throne?
 
Count Valerian

Count Valerian

Banned
darthfanta said:
It's a fundamental law established by Paul I.The exiles other than the most senior surviving male,who would be the heir,has no right to edit any law.The house of Romanov doesn't give anyone the right to edit the law other than the emperor and laws can't be changed retroactively otherwise a law isn't a law.The moment Nicholas and Michael are dead,Cyril would be emperor automatically.Apart from that,why would the surviving members of the imperial family actually change the law in favour of Anastasia?Nicholas and his wife are thoroughly discredited at this point.Not to mention,why would they want a woman on the throne?
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Michael then, so long as they get him out of Russia before he gets imprisoned and executed like in OTL. Cyril is problematic, since in OTL most of what's left of Romanov doesn't recognize his claim, and that's not likely to change here.
 

lukedalton

Seem that Russia is down or at least soon it will be; after that Germany can even allow herself to be generous and offer to France a white peace after all if Russia get a treaty more or less like Brest-Litivosk plus a civil war like OTL Paris will be alone in the contintent and basically checkmated and without any possibility to do any aggressive move...hell Berlin can even permit they annex the francophone part of Belgium (as they absorb Luxemburg naturally).
This because a full assault on France by both Italy and Germany will be costly, very very costly and anyone can feel the desire to stop playing while winning...expecially Austria-Hungary as any victory against Russia mean that their objective are obtained and continuing the conflict is meaningless.
 
Shadow Master

Shadow Master

Banned
lukedalton said:
Seem that Russia is down or at least soon it will be; after that Germany can even allow herself to be generous and offer to France a white peace after all if Russia get a treaty more or less like Brest-Litivosk plus a civil war like OTL Paris will be alone in the contintent and basically checkmated and without any possibility to do any aggressive move...hell Berlin can even permit they annex the francophone part of Belgium (as they absorb Luxemburg naturally).
This because a full assault on France by both Italy and Germany will be costly, very very costly and anyone can feel the desire to stop playing while winning...expecially Austria-Hungary as any victory against Russia mean that their objective are obtained and continuing the conflict is meaningless.
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I have to ask what the map of France's holding in Africa is looking like at the moment. Wasn't there something awhile back about the Germans making progress there?
 

abc123

Banned
Count Valerian said:
Well at least Anastasia is safe in London. .
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Why is she in London?

Also, I do not believe that ITTL Russian Revolution will be as in OTL. Here she could be spearheaded by Cadets, not by Bolsheviks... I think that Germans will not send Lenin back ITTL, they are not desperate enough... Nicholas ( or his brother Michael ) could easily keep the crown if they accept that Duma rules...
 
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