At what point was Nazi Germany doomed to defeat?

[MattII]

Only way Hitler could have won is if he did not pick Jews. All those nuclear scientist that left Germany.

America had plenty of their own, and it still took them 5 years and British help to build the bomb. German doesn't have the resources without cancelling something else, like the whole Aggregat rocket program (and even then, probably won't be able to get the uranium to actually build all the tests and the final bomb), and then to actually use it will require a four-engined bomber, which mean cancelling another big program somewhere, probably the Me-262. All this means it that you now end up with a heavy bomber and a nuke, and no way of actually getting the thing to its target because the enemy has better aircraft.

 

[Urban fox]

I'm gonna say the failure to defeat the Soviets in the Winter of 41. Stalin was on the ropes, and seriously considering negotiations. He moved the entire government east in fear that the Germans were going to seize Moscow.

Had the Germans taken Moscow, Leningrad would likely follow due to a resulting incapacity to supply Leningrad because of Moscows status as the rail hub for all of European Russia from the trans uralic factories. Furthermore, the morale shock would have been terrible to lose their two most important cities.

After that first winter, the Soviets were on war-footing, and were safe from outright defeat. They might consider a negotiated peace, but as long as the Soviets were safe from outright defeat, the Nazis were doomed, IMO.

I’ve posted about that myth before. The Soviets would never sue for peace simply because any treaty signed with Hitler was a worthles scrap of paper. The Germans could reach and fight their way into Moscow but they couldn’t encircle the city and the Soviets had whole armies & fronts massing behind waiting to move forward & launch a counterstroke.

The Germans lost the war pretty much as soon as they invaded the U.S.S.R, they did about as well as they could OTL and it wasn’t anywhere near enough. Without invading the U.S.S.R they face a stalemate until the USA enters the war or the Red Army mobilizes & produces an utterly terrifying amount of troops & equipment. Then maybe Stalin attacks or dosnt...

Question: I recall an Alt-Hist which I never bothered to read, in which Hitler visits Manstein's headquarters shortly after 'Manstein's backhand blow' in which he used an astonishingly small force to restore the front after the surrender of Stalingrad. Hitler spews his usual venom, Manstein blows Hitler away, and sounder leadership seizes power in the Reich.

47 years later...

The Soviets eventually forfeited the Baltic States, Belarus, and half of Ukraine while the western Allies never got more than half of Italy and a neutralized France following the disaster at D-Day(since the Wehrmacht was not needed in Russia).

Could this have happened at any point? For instance, if the Germans went on the defensive pending the arrival of jet fighters, advanced subs and so forth and never launched offensives at Kursk or squandered units elsewhere.

Nope, leadership wasnt the real problem and Manstein’s cunning strategic plans were bankrupt, the Axis simply didn’t have the resources to do what he planned or even to statlemate the Red Army in the long-term. Plus beyond that shooting Hitler would de-stabilize Germany not help it.

Sounds like the TL was just a Heer-wank.

 

[Snake Featherston]

When the Germans declared war on America.

If we go this route then the real answer is the Battle of Smolensk, when the USSR made it clear that the war with the Soviet Union would be a prolonged and bloody fight, German casualties first began to rise exponentially, and the Germans began to advance and overstretch themselves with every yard gained, weaken themselves with every soldier slain, and kill themselves with every logistical shortfall that on their shoulders was lain.

 

[MattII]

Ooh, one point that hasn't been mentioned yet I don't think, Hitler should have taken the hint when Lend-Lease started, because that was the point that the US proved it wasn't going to stay neutral.