Armenia wank
- Thread starter Cherico
- Start date
First you have to get rid of all the Armenians. Now how would we go along doing that...
Maybe somehow the Armenians are able to build and expand their empire they had in the late B.C. era.
That depends on wether you're talking about Armenia as a great power in the modern age, or an Armenia that existed as a great power at some point, but later went into a decline.
...and technically, Armenia has been a great power at some point; during the rule of Tigranes the Great, who ruled somewhere during the 1st century BC, and his empire included Syria, most (if not all) of the southern Caucasus, and pretty much everything in between.
However, the empire of Tigranes collapsed as a result of the Roman invasion, and the war with the Romans was a result from Tigranes getting involved in one of the Mithridaic Wars...
Now then, if there would not have been a war with the Romans, and if Tigranes would have had a succesful heir, it is not that unlikely that an Armenian empire would have survived for at least several centuries...
...
However, this Armenian empire would be a pagan empire, and it would be quite different from the Christian Armenian states and statelets that existed during the late Classic age and the Medieval Ages.
It would certainly be quite a bit tougher to create a succesful Christian Armenian empire (though I don't think that that would require cloning technology...), even though the Armenians actually did pretty well during the Medieval Ages compared to the other predominately Christian ethnic groups in the Middle East...
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
First you have to get rid of all the Armenians. Now how would we go along doing that...
Maybe somehow the Armenians are able to build and expand their empire they had in the late B.C. era.
There aren't enough of them. That's why there needs to be cloning technology.
I think they all took a vacation into Syria one day and were never heard from again.
Huh.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Yes, they forgot to bring their sunscreen, and tragedy ensued. I meant there were never enough of them to be a great power. In 1914 there were maybe 2 million Armenians in the whole world.
Technically, one doesn't need to start with a huge country with a lot of people in order to build a great power.
I mean, the original Roman republic wasn't that big, yet it still grew out into the Roman Empire.
Even a relatively small state can become an empire, as long as it is well-organized and the circumstances are favourable.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Yes, but the Romans were fortunately-located, and able to absorb surrounding places with similar peoples and cultures and that gave them a large power-base. Armenia was composed of a teeny people stuck in a hopeless strategic position surrounded by gigantic powers like the Roman Empire and the Caliphate.
But he has a point - if the POD is far back enough. The Armenians might move to another part of the world as well.
But even the Roman conquest of the Armenian empire was not quite easy.
And if Rome would have collapsed prior or during the Mithridaic wars, or if Rome would have been decisively defeated in the Mithridaic Wars (with as result that the kingdom of Pontus remains strong and that Mithridates Eupator remains in charge), then the position of the Armenian empire of Tigranes would have been quite strong.
And under the conditions that both Mithridates Eupator and Tigranes the Great have successors that are at least capable of properly maintaining their empires, and that the alliance between Pontus and Armenia remains, a lasting Armenian empire is certainly possible.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Yes, because the Armenians live in the moutains and had Persia, another gigantic power, to play off against them. Armenia is too poor, to lacking in resources (of the kind important back then), and too small, and sparse, in population. It's just not a good place to put an empire. Nobody has ever managed it.
By the way, aside from this debate and just out of curiosity; I wonder what would have become of Armenia if the last great Byzantine-Sassanid war would have taken place, but if Islam would not have arisen...
I'm not quite suggesting here that that would guarantee the rise of an Armenian empire two or three centuries later, but I think that we can all agree that that POD offers some interesting possebilities when it comes to the Armenians.
I'll admit right away that even in that scenario, you're more likely to see several Armenian petty kingdoms that may (or might not) be a bit more successful than those that existed in OTL (allthough that really depends on how good or bad the Sassanid Empire will do), but there are nonetheless interesting possebilities in such a scenario.
I'm not quite suggesting here that that would guarantee the rise of an Armenian empire two or three centuries later, but I think that we can all agree that that POD offers some interesting possebilities when it comes to the Armenians.
I'll admit right away that even in that scenario, you're more likely to see several Armenian petty kingdoms that may (or might not) be a bit more successful than those that existed in OTL (allthough that really depends on how good or bad the Sassanid Empire will do), but there are nonetheless interesting possebilities in such a scenario.
So in other words; if the Armenians were ever to build an empire, they'd basically have to move to another (more suitable) part of the world?
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Hard to say. That does offer some better possibilities to them, provided both empires survive and stay relatively balanced in the area. You still have the constant influx of Asian hordes to deal with, though.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Hmmm...I don't recall a timeline where the Armenians are driven out of the Caucasus and conquer, say, northern Mesopotamia or Syria. That would be interesting, in pretty much any time period.
Well, they ended up in Cilicia in the Middle Ages - why not Mesopotamia? That would be weird, but stranger things have happened.
The easier for the Seljuks to sweep down on them and annihilate them, my dear.
But who would be nasty enough to drive the Armenians out of Armenia?