About the Medici marriages: I remember reading in a book on thePalazzo Medici-Riccardi that Ferdinandino de Medici's marriage to Violante Beatrix of Bavaria was in part to salve the damaged relations between Tuscany and Bavaria that ensued after Cosimo III had badly advised Ferdinand Maria of Bavaria on an investment of sorts - hence her smaller than normal dowry. I'm assuming Tuscany still owes Bavaria this money in this scenario?
Apollinis et Dianae: A Story of Power, Magnificence and Glory
- Thread starter Emperor Constantine
- Start date
Can I pose a hypothetical out of curiosity?
Say Jakub and Ludwika have a son, and there've been hints that the last Piast duke survives and marries the OTL electress of Saxony (which would perhaps make for a happier marriage). They have a daughter, Krystyna Ludwika, who as her dad's only kid is heiress to everything. Jakub and Ludwika's son then marries this Piast girl (who the Sejm will be against because it's ANOTHER heretic queen) and they become the progenitors of the house of Sobieski.
1) Does this strengthen the Sobieski hold on the crown or weaken it?
2) What state were the Piast lands (Liegnitz, Ohlau, Brieg etc) in? Rich? Poor? Middling?
3) What would the Sejm say about such another cash grab? And would they try to prevent it?
4) The HRE refused to acknowledge Karolyna as her brother's heiress in 1672, how would this affect the Polish crown now holding lands within the empire, which (AFAIR) are lands Brandenburg is heir to?
Say Jakub and Ludwika have a son, and there've been hints that the last Piast duke survives and marries the OTL electress of Saxony (which would perhaps make for a happier marriage). They have a daughter, Krystyna Ludwika, who as her dad's only kid is heiress to everything. Jakub and Ludwika's son then marries this Piast girl (who the Sejm will be against because it's ANOTHER heretic queen) and they become the progenitors of the house of Sobieski.
1) Does this strengthen the Sobieski hold on the crown or weaken it?
2) What state were the Piast lands (Liegnitz, Ohlau, Brieg etc) in? Rich? Poor? Middling?
3) What would the Sejm say about such another cash grab? And would they try to prevent it?
4) The HRE refused to acknowledge Karolyna as her brother's heiress in 1672, how would this affect the Polish crown now holding lands within the empire, which (AFAIR) are lands Brandenburg is heir to?
The "Heretic Queens Galore" situation is soon changing - I did more research on marriage legislation of 1690ies Commonwealth and realized that Sobieskis currently put themselves in the corner and Sophia is currently is in "have to compromise or have my marriage annuled, war consequences be damned" situation. Though being Sophia, she'll milk her compromise to whatever extent is possible.
Empire was adamant against female line succession in Silesia OTL. Don't think why this is changing TTL, but that's a spoilerific part for the first act of TTL Northern War.
The Duchies are in somewhat mediocre economic condition (much better position once the Industrial revolution starts), but those are big fat prize not only for the Poles - who jump for their piece of pie with varying degree of success - but the Silesian adventure will lead to quite the drop in Jakub I popularity and make him reconsider his foreign policy. BTW, in the next chapter Jakub gets... an interesting new friend, and the Crown Princess Ludwika is not going to be amused about it once she finds out.
That said, I rethought my idea about the match with OTL Electress of Saxony - his first cousin Elisabeth Albertine of Anhalt-Dessau fits better more agewise and because Duke Georg Wilhelm will be likely pushed to marry her once her education at monastery is over. Since the Sobieskis have already (and in OTL) married their relative to the one of House of Anhalt-Dessau (Duchess of Olyka is Elisabeth Albertine's younger sister), this match puts the Poles in better position for Silesian meddling once the time comes. And the OTL fertility record of Elisabeth Albertine is tailor made for succession crisis - 8 pregnancies but only one child lived past the age of 20.
Christiane-Eberhardine comes rather out of nowhere - Georg may meet her at court of his guardian the Elector, but she's still a toddler when he comes to the throne, unlike his first cousin whom he may marry right away. Christiane makes more sense to be married to her maternal first cousin Eberhard Ludwig, Duke of Wurttemberg (though IDK whether that would be much improvement over her OTL life in terms of family life/fidelity of husband). Or even to become a second wife of Margrave Friedrich of Brandenburg once his sickly Hesse wife kicks a bucket in 1690-1691 (the BEST outcome for her to be honest).
Empire was adamant against female line succession in Silesia OTL. Don't think why this is changing TTL, but that's a spoilerific part for the first act of TTL Northern War.
The Duchies are in somewhat mediocre economic condition (much better position once the Industrial revolution starts), but those are big fat prize not only for the Poles - who jump for their piece of pie with varying degree of success - but the Silesian adventure will lead to quite the drop in Jakub I popularity and make him reconsider his foreign policy. BTW, in the next chapter Jakub gets... an interesting new friend, and the Crown Princess Ludwika is not going to be amused about it once she finds out.
That said, I rethought my idea about the match with OTL Electress of Saxony - his first cousin Elisabeth Albertine of Anhalt-Dessau fits better more agewise and because Duke Georg Wilhelm will be likely pushed to marry her once her education at monastery is over. Since the Sobieskis have already (and in OTL) married their relative to the one of House of Anhalt-Dessau (Duchess of Olyka is Elisabeth Albertine's younger sister), this match puts the Poles in better position for Silesian meddling once the time comes. And the OTL fertility record of Elisabeth Albertine is tailor made for succession crisis - 8 pregnancies but only one child lived past the age of 20.
Christiane-Eberhardine comes rather out of nowhere - Georg may meet her at court of his guardian the Elector, but she's still a toddler when he comes to the throne, unlike his first cousin whom he may marry right away. Christiane makes more sense to be married to her maternal first cousin Eberhard Ludwig, Duke of Wurttemberg (though IDK whether that would be much improvement over her OTL life in terms of family life/fidelity of husband). Or even to become a second wife of Margrave Friedrich of Brandenburg once his sickly Hesse wife kicks a bucket in 1690-1691 (the BEST outcome for her to be honest).
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I could be confusing actual history here but didn't Jan III or someone want to invade and reattach Silesia to PLC, OTL. I think the Sejm wouldn't grant the funds or something like that.
Jakub's new friend is likely to be interesting. Part of me wants to think someone in OTL Petya's retinue/Petya if male. If female I have no idea.
Jakub's new friend is likely to be interesting. Part of me wants to think someone in OTL Petya's retinue/Petya if male. If female I have no idea.
It's female. She was connected to both Sobieski family and was one-time mistress of Peter I OTL.
As for adventure - the Poles won't be the initiators, but rather will be dragged in this along in hopes of getting bits and pieces of Silesian inheritance.
Well, since Anna Mons and Marta Lophukina are unlikely, could I hazard Smaragda Cantecuzinos?
Since Mlles Mons and Lophukina are unlikely, might I hazard Maria Zofia Sienawska? Smaragda Cantemir is a bit young.
Well, considering Alex isn't in Warsaw, I suppose it stands to reason she takes up with Jakub instead. That said, it'll make for amusing times when Prince Rakoczi shows up on the scene.
Out of curiosity, how is she related to the Sobieski, especially since AFAIA through her mother she's related to Stanislaw Leszczynski's wife too - both being Opalinskas.
With regards to Morosini, does his politicking away from the Morea/Peloponessus mean that the Parthenon a.k.a. St. Mary of Athens (I think) survives it's unfortunate destruction? Or does it still go down?
Also, could someone layout how everyone surnamed Morosini TTL (the doge of Venice, the governor of Candia and the Cyrenaic royal family, and the Venetian) are related to each other? Maybe with a family tree like before?
Also, could someone layout how everyone surnamed Morosini TTL (the doge of Venice, the governor of Candia and the Cyrenaic royal family, and the Venetian) are related to each other? Maybe with a family tree like before?
http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia...e2-8c38-00271042e8d9_(Dizionario-Biografico)/
And here is an article on a guy who is in charge of Cyrenaica TTL.
And Parthenon is still OK TTL since it's away from main Venetian rampage routes here.
And here is an article on a guy who is in charge of Cyrenaica TTL.
And Parthenon is still OK TTL since it's away from main Venetian rampage routes here.
By the way, guys, any info on children of Duchesse de Guise and Comte de Montresor? I know there were 3 of them, but was this "son and 2 daughters" or "2 sons and daughter".
After pondering about this, I thought that "Guise-Montresor" thing may still happen, since after Le Grande Mademoiselle marries and produces "a brat", Marie de Lorraine will be even more keen on disinheriting her niece whom she hated. And Louis may try to milk her instead of Montpensier, thus buying Duchy of Joyeuse from the Duchesse de Guise for Duc of Maine in exchange for legitimization of her marriage post mortem (her morganatic husband died in 1663). Though I think that only her eldest son will be worthy of something resembling a footnote - Marie was not very fond of her children, and I think that her 2 other children will end up in clerical career with their brother becoming Duc de Guise.
After pondering about this, I thought that "Guise-Montresor" thing may still happen, since after Le Grande Mademoiselle marries and produces "a brat", Marie de Lorraine will be even more keen on disinheriting her niece whom she hated. And Louis may try to milk her instead of Montpensier, thus buying Duchy of Joyeuse from the Duchesse de Guise for Duc of Maine in exchange for legitimization of her marriage post mortem (her morganatic husband died in 1663). Though I think that only her eldest son will be worthy of something resembling a footnote - Marie was not very fond of her children, and I think that her 2 other children will end up in clerical career with their brother becoming Duc de Guise.
As I understand it there was a daughter who hecame a nun, can't recall the convent. There's also a Monsieur de Guise who was betrothed to du Maine's daughter (though could as easily be her grandson, but he pushed for restoration to him of some of la Grande Mademoiselle's inheritance that du Maine was unwilling to disgorge it, on the grounds that he was descended from the duchesse de Joyeuse. As to the third kid, it can just as easily be a boy as a girl. Or even one who died in infancy.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
So we may consider that third one died (in infancy/early childhood) TTL, even if he survived OTL - that simplifies situation.
So, if legitimization/sell of Joyeuse happens circa 1682, then the newly minted "Prince de Joinville" marries his cousin Marie Anne de Lorraine (OTL Abbess in Monmartre past 1685), younger daughter of Comte de Harcourt, his sister becomes the Abbess instead of Marie-Anne (that position was held in Guise family, the incumbent abbess as of 1682 was sister of the Duchesse de Guise), and then... nothing of note happens.
Just the background event that may not even matter in interludes unless we want to list the titles of Duc de Maine (Joyeuse and Aumale are fine substitute for what he got OTL from Montpensier).
Some minor trivia to entertain the readers who await the next installment:
Grigory Petrovich Godunov, military governor (voevoda) of Tobolsk since 1689, the last living (as of 1689) adult male Godunov, TTL husband of Eudoxia Lopukhina. An example of court fashion of mid-1680ies in Russia.
"On the Origin of Russian Idioms", Moscow, 1789 (translated)
"Kasimovsky Dvorets" (Qasim Palace) - "something that is luxorious but is obviously well beyond its owner's means, created/purchased to merely show off"
The so-called Qasim Palace was build at the city of Kasimov on Oka river in the period 1690-1699, by titular Khan Ivan of Qasim for his wife, Tsarevna Maria Alekseyevna Romanova, sister of Tsar Feodor III.
While the palace, build using cheap labor of prisoners of Crimean War, is a blend of the Muscovite Baroque and traditional Crimean Tatar palace architecture, its luxury in no way reflects the actual economic condition of the Khanate of the period of its construction. While the Khan and select upper nobility of "Serving Tatars" profited both from war booty and from the relations with House of Romanov by marriage, the palace "stuck out like a sore thumb among poverty", "being an eye candy for Khan and his Begs", since the lesser gentry and commoners were still recovering from civil unrest of 1682-1688 in the region.
Grigory Petrovich Godunov, military governor (voevoda) of Tobolsk since 1689, the last living (as of 1689) adult male Godunov, TTL husband of Eudoxia Lopukhina. An example of court fashion of mid-1680ies in Russia.
"On the Origin of Russian Idioms", Moscow, 1789 (translated)
"Kasimovsky Dvorets" (Qasim Palace) - "something that is luxorious but is obviously well beyond its owner's means, created/purchased to merely show off"
The so-called Qasim Palace was build at the city of Kasimov on Oka river in the period 1690-1699, by titular Khan Ivan of Qasim for his wife, Tsarevna Maria Alekseyevna Romanova, sister of Tsar Feodor III.
While the palace, build using cheap labor of prisoners of Crimean War, is a blend of the Muscovite Baroque and traditional Crimean Tatar palace architecture, its luxury in no way reflects the actual economic condition of the Khanate of the period of its construction. While the Khan and select upper nobility of "Serving Tatars" profited both from war booty and from the relations with House of Romanov by marriage, the palace "stuck out like a sore thumb among poverty", "being an eye candy for Khan and his Begs", since the lesser gentry and commoners were still recovering from civil unrest of 1682-1688 in the region.
I can think of a few groups that would strongly agree with that sentiment, and for purely self-interested reasons. Presumably, those producing the cannons and other weapons for the crusade are making substantial profits, as they can freely trade for materials and sell across Europe so long as the continent is united by the war. As a stimulus for industry, this could be the first glimmering of the coming industrial revolution in a few places.
In what nation might those arms makers and other war profiteers be most concentrated though?
Three markets - Britain, Sweden and Netherlands, maybe 4 with France - though Sweden is a "niche" market, as light cannons are comissioned for the "Eastern Front".
But TTL British industrial revolution - namely cannon boring mills & stuff - will definitely get a LOT of profit from this war.
But TTL British industrial revolution - namely cannon boring mills & stuff - will definitely get a LOT of profit from this war.