Another preview of one of my timelines
- Thread starter Straha
- Start date
Actually...
Actually, there are other types of cults that would be allowed to develop in the environment of the ATL's Germany. Consider that the two I mentioned are merely an example for the 1980s. I just need to do some quick research, but apparently the UFO aspect of the cults didn't appear until roughly the 1960s/1970s. Consider in the ATL, we have right-wing cults gaining ascendency in teh UK, France and now Germany.
On a completely unrelated topic...for the ATL, one idea came to mind when it came after watching The American Experience (PBS-TV). Apparently you want a 1960s without any major protest movements. You also want a pseudo techno-libertarian twenteth century complete with acceptance of sexual mores and narcotics. Historically, the only place that happened in America was strangely enough was Las Vegas, NV. As such, consider having organized crime a semi-peaceful presence in government, at least until 1978. Consider that you also would have the support of some of the countries leading technocrats (e.g. Howard Hughes). Consider that you easily would have the fastest growing economy on Earth, a general acceptance of sexual mores, and narcotics legalization plus you have a strong labor movement that actually looks at business in a lassez-faire fashion (e.g. the Teamster's Union). At the very least you could have organized crime more heavily involved in the machine politics of the 20th century...
It's a controversial idea, but it cetainly adds a surreal layer of detail, plus it works logically in the ATL...
Straha said:
Actually, there are other types of cults that would be allowed to develop in the environment of the ATL's Germany. Consider that the two I mentioned are merely an example for the 1980s. I just need to do some quick research, but apparently the UFO aspect of the cults didn't appear until roughly the 1960s/1970s. Consider in the ATL, we have right-wing cults gaining ascendency in teh UK, France and now Germany.
On a completely unrelated topic...for the ATL, one idea came to mind when it came after watching The American Experience (PBS-TV). Apparently you want a 1960s without any major protest movements. You also want a pseudo techno-libertarian twenteth century complete with acceptance of sexual mores and narcotics. Historically, the only place that happened in America was strangely enough was Las Vegas, NV. As such, consider having organized crime a semi-peaceful presence in government, at least until 1978. Consider that you also would have the support of some of the countries leading technocrats (e.g. Howard Hughes). Consider that you easily would have the fastest growing economy on Earth, a general acceptance of sexual mores, and narcotics legalization plus you have a strong labor movement that actually looks at business in a lassez-faire fashion (e.g. the Teamster's Union). At the very least you could have organized crime more heavily involved in the machine politics of the 20th century...
It's a controversial idea, but it cetainly adds a surreal layer of detail, plus it works logically in the ATL...
The Strange Part...
The strange part is that, the description you gave basically describes the period of Las Vegas, NV during teh period from 1935 under Bugsy Siegel until the collapse of the Mafia in 1978, with the rise of corporate control. Consider that there were never any big anti-war rallies, marches, civil rights demonstrations in Las Vegas, NV. Also consider that you have technocrats like Howards Hughes help advise on policy in the area from 1966 to 1970 to boost the space and atomic weapons program. It would be quiet and a prosperous era for everyone. Consider that even with the Mafia involed, it was relatively peaceful, with no records of major Mafia wars over the city, or within its city limits...
Straha said:
The strange part is that, the description you gave basically describes the period of Las Vegas, NV during teh period from 1935 under Bugsy Siegel until the collapse of the Mafia in 1978, with the rise of corporate control. Consider that there were never any big anti-war rallies, marches, civil rights demonstrations in Las Vegas, NV. Also consider that you have technocrats like Howards Hughes help advise on policy in the area from 1966 to 1970 to boost the space and atomic weapons program. It would be quiet and a prosperous era for everyone. Consider that even with the Mafia involed, it was relatively peaceful, with no records of major Mafia wars over the city, or within its city limits...
Some Quick Ideas....
1931- In OTL, the Nevada Legislature repeals the act banning gambling. Although gambling has flourished underground, it has officially been illegal for years, in the ATL consider the action is taken nationwide to prevent a possible Depression from the CSA spreading to the USA's economy...
1932-In OTL, Nevada politician Patrick McCarran (R-NV) is elected to the U.S. Senate. An eventual chairman of the Judiciary Committee, McCarran would become the one of the most powerful politicians in Nevada's history. In the ATL, consider the effect of him getting elected President of the United States...
1946- In OTL,The Flamingo Hotel, built with mob money by Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel, opens prematurely. Unlike other resorts on the strip that flaunt an Old West style, the Flamingo is a glamorous destination for high rollers. But without a finished hotel, Siegel loses revenue and is forced to close the resort until construction is completed...In the ATL, consider that similar losses are made in government programs on a regular basis....
1947- In OTL, Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel is murdered in Virginia Hill's Beverly Hills estate. His death sparks an enormous amount of publicity for Las Vegas, and Americans begin to see Las Vegas as a more glamorous, risky city. Imagine in the ATL, you have a President Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel, the first Jewish-American President assassinated in Los Angeles, CA (c. 1951)...
1948- In OTL, Alamo Airport is purchased by Clark County and eventually named McCarran airport after Nevada U.S. Senator Pat McCarran, for whom the development of aviation had been a cause. In the ATL, consider the of McCarran Air Field as being the home of the NACA, the precursor to NASA, and the beginnings of the space program...
1951-In OTL, the first of a series of nuclear tests occurs on the Nevada Proving Grounds, 65 miles from downtown Las Vegas. There were 235 aboveground tests, roughly one every three weeks, for the next 12 years. Capitalizing on the publicity garnered by the tests, Las Vegans begin marketing the detonations as one of their city's attractions. Consider that in the ATL, consider this proof of less concern about the dangers of nuclear power than in OTL. Consider that the environmental movement will move slower....
1955-In OTL, the Moulin Rouge Hotel-Casino, co-owned by boxer Joe Louis, opens. It is the first establishment on the Vegas Strip in which African American staff, entertainers and guests are not restricted. The hotel is deemed a national historic site in 1992. Consider that in the ATL, teh equivalence would be the idea of third or fourth generation African-American "Exodusters" becoming Fortune 500 millionaires...
1957- In OTL, topless showgirls make their Las Vegas debut with Minsky's Follies at the Desert Inn. In the ATL, consider this a period when prostitution is placed in the national spotlight for legalization...
1960- In OTL, One day before a planned protest, NAACP members, Las Vegas' mayor, governor and businessmen meet and agree to lift all Jim Crow restrictions. While it will be more than ten years before the city is fully integrated, the swiftness with which the agreement is made is proof that the smooth operation of business was more important than outside cultural forces.
In the ATL, consider this idea of "smooth operation" being used to enforce and implement different pieces of civil rights legislation...
1963- In OTL, The Green Felt Jungle, an exposé on the organized crime connections in Las Vegas, is published. Along with a secret FBI investigation of the Syndicate's "skim," Las Vegas' tarnished image continues to draw tourists. In the ATL, consider that government corruption and links to the Mafia will arise. On the plus side, you don't have much protest or anger, but a concerted concern...
1966- Howard Hughes arrives in Las Vegas, taking over the top two floors of the Desert Inn. For four years, Hughes remains in his room, from where he negotiates business deals that change Las Vegas forever. In the ATL, consider what if he gets elected in 1968 as President of the United States of America....
1970-In OTL, Hughes leaves Las Vegas four years after arriving. In that time, Hughes had become Nevada's largest private employer, largest casino owner, largest property owner and largest mining claims owner. Hughes' ventures also lead to the downfall of Attorney General John Mitchell, who is bribed not to file anti-trust action against Hughes' casino acquisitions. But more importantly to Las Vegans, Hughes' presence had put Las Vegas back in the country's good graces, making way for the city's corporate, mainstream era. In the ATL, consider the effect of a one-term Howard Hughes-style techno-libertarian administration as President of the United States until 1972....
1975-The revenue generated by Nevada gaming amounts to more than $1 billion dollars. Consider that this adds up in the ATL to a $2 trillion budget, more than enough to pay for the massive space program that is proposed, even the lunar colonies....
1983-In OTL, Trans World Airline (TWA) cancels its nonstop service from New York City to Las Vegas. The cancellation is part of an era in which Las Vegas' growth has stalled. Consider in the ATL, the idea that the stock market temporarily hits a recession. It is smaller than the 1989 and certainly unlike the 1929 depression, but consider that you have a slowdown in work....
1989- In OTL, Using junk bonds to finance construction, Steve Wynn builds the Mirage, the first new resort on the Strip in 16 years. With 3,000 rooms, at a cost of $640 million, the Mirage is more than two times the size of the MGM Grand... In the ATL, consider that you have the resurrection of the economy under people like Steve Wynn, Donald Trump and other investors...
1999- In OTL, at 37 million tourists annually, Las Vegas is the most visited place in the world. By this time, Las Vegas is seen as a resort destination, and the revenue earned from entertainment surpasses that earned by the casinos. Consider in the ATL, this translates to 740 million tourists across the the USA, the sign of a robust and booming economy...
2005-One of the nation's fastest growing counties, Clark County welcomes more than 5,000 new residents each month. The County makes up 75 percent of Nevada's total state population. Consider that in the ATL, this translates into 100,000 new residents to the United States. Consider that it is a sign that you have every sector of the economy growing....
Try some of these ideas on for size. Consider that you saw no Mafia Gangland Massacres, and you have continuous growth....
Straha said:
1931- In OTL, the Nevada Legislature repeals the act banning gambling. Although gambling has flourished underground, it has officially been illegal for years, in the ATL consider the action is taken nationwide to prevent a possible Depression from the CSA spreading to the USA's economy...
1932-In OTL, Nevada politician Patrick McCarran (R-NV) is elected to the U.S. Senate. An eventual chairman of the Judiciary Committee, McCarran would become the one of the most powerful politicians in Nevada's history. In the ATL, consider the effect of him getting elected President of the United States...
1946- In OTL,The Flamingo Hotel, built with mob money by Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel, opens prematurely. Unlike other resorts on the strip that flaunt an Old West style, the Flamingo is a glamorous destination for high rollers. But without a finished hotel, Siegel loses revenue and is forced to close the resort until construction is completed...In the ATL, consider that similar losses are made in government programs on a regular basis....
1947- In OTL, Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel is murdered in Virginia Hill's Beverly Hills estate. His death sparks an enormous amount of publicity for Las Vegas, and Americans begin to see Las Vegas as a more glamorous, risky city. Imagine in the ATL, you have a President Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel, the first Jewish-American President assassinated in Los Angeles, CA (c. 1951)...
1948- In OTL, Alamo Airport is purchased by Clark County and eventually named McCarran airport after Nevada U.S. Senator Pat McCarran, for whom the development of aviation had been a cause. In the ATL, consider the of McCarran Air Field as being the home of the NACA, the precursor to NASA, and the beginnings of the space program...
1951-In OTL, the first of a series of nuclear tests occurs on the Nevada Proving Grounds, 65 miles from downtown Las Vegas. There were 235 aboveground tests, roughly one every three weeks, for the next 12 years. Capitalizing on the publicity garnered by the tests, Las Vegans begin marketing the detonations as one of their city's attractions. Consider that in the ATL, consider this proof of less concern about the dangers of nuclear power than in OTL. Consider that the environmental movement will move slower....
1955-In OTL, the Moulin Rouge Hotel-Casino, co-owned by boxer Joe Louis, opens. It is the first establishment on the Vegas Strip in which African American staff, entertainers and guests are not restricted. The hotel is deemed a national historic site in 1992. Consider that in the ATL, teh equivalence would be the idea of third or fourth generation African-American "Exodusters" becoming Fortune 500 millionaires...
1957- In OTL, topless showgirls make their Las Vegas debut with Minsky's Follies at the Desert Inn. In the ATL, consider this a period when prostitution is placed in the national spotlight for legalization...
1960- In OTL, One day before a planned protest, NAACP members, Las Vegas' mayor, governor and businessmen meet and agree to lift all Jim Crow restrictions. While it will be more than ten years before the city is fully integrated, the swiftness with which the agreement is made is proof that the smooth operation of business was more important than outside cultural forces.
In the ATL, consider this idea of "smooth operation" being used to enforce and implement different pieces of civil rights legislation...
1963- In OTL, The Green Felt Jungle, an exposé on the organized crime connections in Las Vegas, is published. Along with a secret FBI investigation of the Syndicate's "skim," Las Vegas' tarnished image continues to draw tourists. In the ATL, consider that government corruption and links to the Mafia will arise. On the plus side, you don't have much protest or anger, but a concerted concern...
1966- Howard Hughes arrives in Las Vegas, taking over the top two floors of the Desert Inn. For four years, Hughes remains in his room, from where he negotiates business deals that change Las Vegas forever. In the ATL, consider what if he gets elected in 1968 as President of the United States of America....
1970-In OTL, Hughes leaves Las Vegas four years after arriving. In that time, Hughes had become Nevada's largest private employer, largest casino owner, largest property owner and largest mining claims owner. Hughes' ventures also lead to the downfall of Attorney General John Mitchell, who is bribed not to file anti-trust action against Hughes' casino acquisitions. But more importantly to Las Vegans, Hughes' presence had put Las Vegas back in the country's good graces, making way for the city's corporate, mainstream era. In the ATL, consider the effect of a one-term Howard Hughes-style techno-libertarian administration as President of the United States until 1972....
1975-The revenue generated by Nevada gaming amounts to more than $1 billion dollars. Consider that this adds up in the ATL to a $2 trillion budget, more than enough to pay for the massive space program that is proposed, even the lunar colonies....
1983-In OTL, Trans World Airline (TWA) cancels its nonstop service from New York City to Las Vegas. The cancellation is part of an era in which Las Vegas' growth has stalled. Consider in the ATL, the idea that the stock market temporarily hits a recession. It is smaller than the 1989 and certainly unlike the 1929 depression, but consider that you have a slowdown in work....
1989- In OTL, Using junk bonds to finance construction, Steve Wynn builds the Mirage, the first new resort on the Strip in 16 years. With 3,000 rooms, at a cost of $640 million, the Mirage is more than two times the size of the MGM Grand... In the ATL, consider that you have the resurrection of the economy under people like Steve Wynn, Donald Trump and other investors...
1999- In OTL, at 37 million tourists annually, Las Vegas is the most visited place in the world. By this time, Las Vegas is seen as a resort destination, and the revenue earned from entertainment surpasses that earned by the casinos. Consider in the ATL, this translates to 740 million tourists across the the USA, the sign of a robust and booming economy...
2005-One of the nation's fastest growing counties, Clark County welcomes more than 5,000 new residents each month. The County makes up 75 percent of Nevada's total state population. Consider that in the ATL, this translates into 100,000 new residents to the United States. Consider that it is a sign that you have every sector of the economy growing....
Try some of these ideas on for size. Consider that you saw no Mafia Gangland Massacres, and you have continuous growth....
Consider This...
Consider that at least 50%-80% of the tourists would be here for business. Also consider that like Las Vegas, NV, the USA in the ATL is very tight-fisted in terms of social spending. While it is very progressive in terms of race relations, consider that they are not big on social services...
Straha said:
Consider that at least 50%-80% of the tourists would be here for business. Also consider that like Las Vegas, NV, the USA in the ATL is very tight-fisted in terms of social spending. While it is very progressive in terms of race relations, consider that they are not big on social services...
Yes.. Indeed...
Yes, Howard Hughes was a reclusive hermit at this point in his life. But the weird thing was that starting in 1966 he came into Las Vegas, NV purchasing the Desert Inn. He would later acquire 1/3 of all of the casinos in Clark County, NV by the time he left in 1970, earning millions of dollars in the process. Apparently he purchased the Glass Slipper casino in 1967 because he was kept up late at night by the lights....
Wendell said:
Yes, Howard Hughes was a reclusive hermit at this point in his life. But the weird thing was that starting in 1966 he came into Las Vegas, NV purchasing the Desert Inn. He would later acquire 1/3 of all of the casinos in Clark County, NV by the time he left in 1970, earning millions of dollars in the process. Apparently he purchased the Glass Slipper casino in 1967 because he was kept up late at night by the lights....
Hold Off!!
Considering that the founder of Theosophy, Helena P. Blavatsky was a Russian, it would certainly not be a smart move for anyone to promote
the idea of Theosophy, especially considering the historical treatment of the Slavic population by the Germans in the ATL and OTL...
I do have something forming on the way though. consider the strange and bizarre cults of Savitri Devi, a German expatriate in INdia, who believed in an Aryan homeland in the 1930s/1940s. Then you have the idea of Rosicrucianism in the 1900s and with a massive revival in the 1970s with the promise of a "Great White Brotherhood"...
Wendell said:
Considering that the founder of Theosophy, Helena P. Blavatsky was a Russian, it would certainly not be a smart move for anyone to promote
the idea of Theosophy, especially considering the historical treatment of the Slavic population by the Germans in the ATL and OTL...
I do have something forming on the way though. consider the strange and bizarre cults of Savitri Devi, a German expatriate in INdia, who believed in an Aryan homeland in the 1930s/1940s. Then you have the idea of Rosicrucianism in the 1900s and with a massive revival in the 1970s with the promise of a "Great White Brotherhood"...
That Depends...
That depends on several major factors. First, considering the relatively bloodless separation from the British Empire, how much blood will India be willing to spill in order to enforce its dictates? Second, considering that you have major portions of the country under Muslim rule, what is to prevent a secessionist break, creating Pakistan? Third, what is being done by the Indian government to prevent the rise of terrorism, in the form of incentives (e.g. business opportunities, social welfare programs)?
Straha said:
That depends on several major factors. First, considering the relatively bloodless separation from the British Empire, how much blood will India be willing to spill in order to enforce its dictates? Second, considering that you have major portions of the country under Muslim rule, what is to prevent a secessionist break, creating Pakistan? Third, what is being done by the Indian government to prevent the rise of terrorism, in the form of incentives (e.g. business opportunities, social welfare programs)?