Anglo-France? Or Franco-Britain?

[Glen]

Well, this would be an interesting development. I'm surprised no one's worked out a TL yet.
An Anglo-French Union (that name jumps out at me for some reason) would control nearly all of Africa, India, Indochina, Australia, Canada, Syria, Israel, Jordan, Guyana, Suriname, and numerous Caribbean islands. Pretty much instant superpower.
The French would barely feel the switch back to a monarchy, I'd think, considering the numerous switches between governments they've undergone over the years.
This would be something interesting to play with.

But a BRITISH Monarch?

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

But a BRITISH Monarch?

Of GERMAN descent?

 

[Glen]

Apply the monarch as head of state of France

Maybe....

and simply apply British law to France, and where other French laws that are in effect in France that do not conflict with British laws, simply keep them. hmm I think that makes sense.

I have the feeling you are not French....

This problem could probably solved as well, as long as the French put up strong resistance giving the British enough time to possibly open up a second front on the Germans or reinforce the southern fronth the French would have against the Germans.

Maybe.

 

[Glen]

Honestly though, if I did ATTEMPT a TL out of this, what sounds better; Franco-Britain or Anglo-France? If I had to chose one I believe it would be the former seeing as Anglo effectively represents English, for example Anglophobe means a love of things English NOT British (sorry for being patronising).

Franco-British Union is the name being used in the article you posted.

 

[Glen]

The first of these is precisely why it was a good idea and why some French officials might have considered it. For it to work though, you need a French PM with vision and determination... someone like Felix Eboue (who in OTL was the Governor of Chad who, by refusing to surrender when his Government did, sowed the seeds for de Gaule's Free French Forces.

This option makes it impossible for the Germans to set up a puppet French government at Vichy.

Or do they set up a puppet 'Independent France' that then they push into fighting a proxy civil war against the Unionists.

Yes, it would be a fight of Unionists versus Republicans....in France!

Instead they have to occupy the whole of France, draining men from efforts elsewhere. This in turn might lead to Anglo French forces "digging in" somewhere in the Massif Centrale and preventing the fall of France.

Could be. I take it that the Dunkirk miracle would get the British through and they redeploy to the South.

Even if Germany occupied the whole of France though, it would not feel safe to turn on (for example) Russia unless Operation Sealion succeeded. It would then become imperative for Germany to win the Battle of Britain. This might well have shortened the war.

Seems unlikely. They might have to fight longer for France, but they could have decided simply to kick the Franco-British off the continent and when the Battle of Britain failed, decide to dig in there.

As for the second problem, it is in essence a non-problem. In OTL, we've had no problem having New Caledonia (now Vanuatu) as a joint French-British territory. Either France could become a monarchy (The third Empire? or the Second Kingdom?) - the French have changed their constitution twice since then without ill-effect. Or the parts of the Union could have different relationships to the Queen as head of state (or perhaps even no relationship at all except one of respect - as is the case with India, which is a loyal member of the Commonwealth - of which the Queen is head - but at the same time a Republic with both a PM and a President.

But that is the question, now, isn't it. What would be the relationships of the British and the French within this Franco-British Union? That it could be worked out is true, but WHAT is the most likely to be worked out?

 

[Doeth]

Well the map is scary to say the least...'

NOTE: I used 1939, just too hard with the fronts and all...
EDIT: Few errors with Togo and the crap in China but it is small...

 

[ljofa]

Certainly post WW2 would be interesting - Churchill might send De Gaulle to personally sort out the mess in Indochina.

Given the strong impetus towards left wing governments after the war in both Britain and France, Anglo-France might well become a republic as both sides choose to formally dissolve the monarchy.

 

[Glen]

Certainly post WW2 would be interesting - Churchill might send De Gaulle to personally sort out the mess in Indochina.

Given the strong impetus towards left wing governments after the war in both Britain and France, Anglo-France might well become a republic as both sides choose to formally dissolve the monarchy.

I think not. Dissolving the monarchy would unnecessarily disturb the right.

 

[Hendryk]

There was some speculation about that topic a while ago, but no actual ATL came of it.

 

[KieronAntony]

I have the feeling you are not French....

Correct. Was it that obvious?

What would be the relationships of the British and the French within this Franco-British Union?

They would probably be the same as the English have with the Scottish, just not as cordial because we have been united for, 300 years next year.

 

[Glen]

There was some speculation about that topic a while ago, but no actual ATL came of it.

Perhaps we should merge the two threads?

There seems to be the glimmer of a start of a timeline in this earlier thread....

 

[Hendryk]

Perhaps we should merge the two threads?

There seems to be the glimmer of a start of a timeline in this earlier thread....

Considering that Alan Watts, who started the other thread, last logged on in February 2006, I think you can go ahead and merge the two, as it looks unlikely that anything else will be added to the other one.

 

[Fellatio Nelson]

Reminded to bump this after reading it.

More Os, Thande.

 

[Alcuin]

Surely, the union would not be Franco British but simply British (with the definition of "British" extended to include "French")? Although no doubt historians would describe the Act of Union of 1940 as "The Anglo-French Union".

 

[ColeMercury]

Surely, the union would not be Franco British but simply British (with the definition of "British" extended to include "French")?

What? That's stupid. The country of France had been around for centuries - they wouldn't drop their name and say "We're British now!"

I think it would be "Franco-British", because "Anglo-French" excludes Scotland, Northern Ireland and (possibly) Wales.

 

[Alcuin]

What? That's stupid. The country of France had been around for centuries - they wouldn't drop their name and say "We're British now!"

They aren't dropping the name, any more than the Scots (to whom everything that aplies to France also applies) did when they became British. The English also became British when the Act of Union came into being. There would be one Political Union called Britain, which would be a single country to outsiders, but within that country would be England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, France and Wales.

 

[Redbeard]

They aren't dropping the name, any more than the Scots (to whom everything that aplies to France also applies) did when they became British. The English also became British when the Act of Union came into being. There would be one Political Union called Britain, which would be a single country to outsiders, but within that country would be England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, France and Wales.

That would be the quickest way to kill that union - France being a department along with Wales, and under the British Crown!!! Mers-el-Kebir would be lovemaking in comparison.

You would need all the courtesy, tact and diplomacy you can think of not to step any of the nations on their pride. So leave France and GB as they are, but add some kind of "Joint heads of state commitee" supported by various "joint ministries" and staffs. With her main territory occupied France would of course be junior partner in reality, but not at least for that reason the courtesy etc. is needed - GB should even considder offering the throne of GB to some descendant of Napoleon

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

 

[Thande]

I can't think of any term that would accurately encompass both as a geographic entity - the only time to my knowledge most of them were united was in the Angevin period, and that was not as a functioning state. Perhaps a portmanteau? ("Britance"? "Brance"?)

 

[Max Sinister]

Western European Union? Occidental Union?

 

[Thande]

Western European Union? Occidental Union?

Eventually perhaps but hardly descriptive at the start. Especially considering how many British people didn't and don't consider themselves European (although the 1940s political elite probably did, for the most part).