An Age of Prosperity, The Kingdom of Denmark
- Thread starter Bastiram
- Start date
Thanks.
World map, yes I should make one. Will make one for the last of these updates, I think that makes most sense.
THe idea with the names is to represent who discovered it, so OTL North America, Bergen will get the real credit hence the name coming from there. Likewise Spain/Portugal will get the credit for the discovery of OTL South America
I have some ideas for OTL South America. But I need to put a few more thoughts into it before I commit.
What can be said is this:
Portugal is colonizing OTL Brazil during this timeframes (got some ideas to change it from OTL)
In OTL Colombia the second largest European colony is located, which is under Lotharingia.
The Spanish presence from South America is gone in the indigenous uprising, their colonies are located in the Caribbean and in OTL Mexico.
The “Frontiers” of Europe II
The “Frontiers” of Europe, Spain
The Indigenous uprising of 1578 would have a profound effect on the Kingdom of Spain and their Trastámara kings, the uprising meant that a political shift happened in Spanish society.
It propelled a series of Aragonese or Pro-Aragonese nobility to power in Spain, a position they would hold for the next 50 years. This group, together with the king, managed to tie the interest of the larger Castille, together with the well developed but less populated Aragon.
Before Aragon had joined in a union with Castille it had, had a well-developed empire in the Mediterranean, which had been inherited by Spain. However, in the decades before 1578, these possessions had taken a backseat, as the Castilian aristocracy had focused on the New World in the west.
The aftermath of the indigenous uprising of 1578, in Terra Nova, which cost Spain half its territory in the New World would see the Spanish focus going from the west to the east.
Calls to secure Italy against French influence became loud, and the old alliances with the Republic of Genoa and the Duchy of Milan was dusted off, furthermore the Island of Sicily long a Spanish possession was fortified, in the previous decades agents of the Kingdom of Naples had spread discontent on the island. Which they claimed was rightfully theirs.
France and Naples would play a important part in the policies of this eastern focused Spain, Naples ever hostile over the Spanish possession of Sicily, would remain as such. With Naples closely allied to France, which was eager to spread its influence in Northern Italy, meant that relations deteriorated quickly.
France had a stronger hand in the politics of Italy, while it controlled no land in the area, like Spain did, it remained friendly with the largest powers of Italy, that of Naples in the south, which was ruled by the French Anjou dynasty and the largest Republic, that of Venice in the north. Furthermore, the Duchy of Savoy at this point can at best be described as a French puppet.
The Papal States were heavily courted by both sides, but remained staunchly neutral, though it was leaning towards favour of the Kingdom of Naples. One bright point for Spain was the alliance with the Republic of Florence, which came to fruition in the last years of the 16th century.
To further strengthen its position against France, Spain would answer favourable when emissaries from the Kingdom of Lotharingia came with the proposition of an alliance, it was gladly received. Though the efforts to get the Habsburgs of Hungary to join the Alliance and complete the encirclement met with utter failure.
The real breakthrough for Spain in the Mediterranean was not Italy, though it was hotly contested, but quite simply due to the implosion of the Ottoman Empire, Spain, like other states in the Mediterranean would exploit this for their own gain, the Muslim states lacked the organisation to defend themselves against their expansionist neighbours across the sea.
Spain would go on to establish or take control of strategic citadels and cities along the North African coast, it would meddle in the Greek mainland, to the annoyance of both Venice and Naples, finally taking control of the city of Kórinthos from Greek rebels in 1592. From there It would try to establish control of the Greek Peloponnese Peninsular from the strategic stronghold that Kórinthos was.
The efforts in the Peloponnese were helped by the divided nature of the peninsula, with the majority of the Island in the hands of infighting Greek rebels, though the region of Achaea remained in control of the local Ottoman garrison.
Similar efforts were tried to establish control of the neighbouring Attica region, but fully under the control of Greek rebels, which was united, compared to the ones on the Peloponnese and heavily supported by Venice, would resist the efforts from the Spanish crown.
Nonetheless, the Greek mainland would remain a sideshow, much like the Italian business, what this period is known for is the triumphant acquisition of the city of Beirut located in the Levant. The Levant had compared to Greece fallen completely into anarchy following the implosion of the Ottoman state.
City states and the local nobles now ruled in a patchwork of semi official states waging for control of the once thriving and rich region.
It was due to one of these feuds, that saw Beirut, essentially a city state by now, besieged by enemies. Unable to break the siege on their own, and with no local allies of note, Beirut found it necessary to look for outside help.
Spain f had eyed the Levant for a few short years previously to this, but being busy in North Africa, Greece and Italy had restrained Spain, however, with success in North Africa and the political game in Italy locked in place, the Spanish realm jumped at the opportunity to get a foothold in the Levant when it was presented to them.
The foothold in the Levant was hoped to be a springboard to dominate the region. It was argued in the Spanish court, to justify the initial expenses, that not only could the Levant become a net gain for Spain, but it also represented a political chess piece in Italy, how better to curry favour with the Pope, then reconquering the Holy Land?
The King of Naples was not ignorant to these ambitions, and him being the titular King of Jerusalem, could hardly stand by. And as such, the politics of the Italian peninsular spread across the Mediterranean once again.
The Indigenous uprising of 1578 would have a profound effect on the Kingdom of Spain and their Trastámara kings, the uprising meant that a political shift happened in Spanish society.
It propelled a series of Aragonese or Pro-Aragonese nobility to power in Spain, a position they would hold for the next 50 years. This group, together with the king, managed to tie the interest of the larger Castille, together with the well developed but less populated Aragon.
Before Aragon had joined in a union with Castille it had, had a well-developed empire in the Mediterranean, which had been inherited by Spain. However, in the decades before 1578, these possessions had taken a backseat, as the Castilian aristocracy had focused on the New World in the west.
The aftermath of the indigenous uprising of 1578, in Terra Nova, which cost Spain half its territory in the New World would see the Spanish focus going from the west to the east.
Calls to secure Italy against French influence became loud, and the old alliances with the Republic of Genoa and the Duchy of Milan was dusted off, furthermore the Island of Sicily long a Spanish possession was fortified, in the previous decades agents of the Kingdom of Naples had spread discontent on the island. Which they claimed was rightfully theirs.
France and Naples would play a important part in the policies of this eastern focused Spain, Naples ever hostile over the Spanish possession of Sicily, would remain as such. With Naples closely allied to France, which was eager to spread its influence in Northern Italy, meant that relations deteriorated quickly.
France had a stronger hand in the politics of Italy, while it controlled no land in the area, like Spain did, it remained friendly with the largest powers of Italy, that of Naples in the south, which was ruled by the French Anjou dynasty and the largest Republic, that of Venice in the north. Furthermore, the Duchy of Savoy at this point can at best be described as a French puppet.
The Papal States were heavily courted by both sides, but remained staunchly neutral, though it was leaning towards favour of the Kingdom of Naples. One bright point for Spain was the alliance with the Republic of Florence, which came to fruition in the last years of the 16th century.
To further strengthen its position against France, Spain would answer favourable when emissaries from the Kingdom of Lotharingia came with the proposition of an alliance, it was gladly received. Though the efforts to get the Habsburgs of Hungary to join the Alliance and complete the encirclement met with utter failure.
The real breakthrough for Spain in the Mediterranean was not Italy, though it was hotly contested, but quite simply due to the implosion of the Ottoman Empire, Spain, like other states in the Mediterranean would exploit this for their own gain, the Muslim states lacked the organisation to defend themselves against their expansionist neighbours across the sea.
Spain would go on to establish or take control of strategic citadels and cities along the North African coast, it would meddle in the Greek mainland, to the annoyance of both Venice and Naples, finally taking control of the city of Kórinthos from Greek rebels in 1592. From there It would try to establish control of the Greek Peloponnese Peninsular from the strategic stronghold that Kórinthos was.
The efforts in the Peloponnese were helped by the divided nature of the peninsula, with the majority of the Island in the hands of infighting Greek rebels, though the region of Achaea remained in control of the local Ottoman garrison.
Similar efforts were tried to establish control of the neighbouring Attica region, but fully under the control of Greek rebels, which was united, compared to the ones on the Peloponnese and heavily supported by Venice, would resist the efforts from the Spanish crown.
Nonetheless, the Greek mainland would remain a sideshow, much like the Italian business, what this period is known for is the triumphant acquisition of the city of Beirut located in the Levant. The Levant had compared to Greece fallen completely into anarchy following the implosion of the Ottoman state.
City states and the local nobles now ruled in a patchwork of semi official states waging for control of the once thriving and rich region.
It was due to one of these feuds, that saw Beirut, essentially a city state by now, besieged by enemies. Unable to break the siege on their own, and with no local allies of note, Beirut found it necessary to look for outside help.
Spain f had eyed the Levant for a few short years previously to this, but being busy in North Africa, Greece and Italy had restrained Spain, however, with success in North Africa and the political game in Italy locked in place, the Spanish realm jumped at the opportunity to get a foothold in the Levant when it was presented to them.
The foothold in the Levant was hoped to be a springboard to dominate the region. It was argued in the Spanish court, to justify the initial expenses, that not only could the Levant become a net gain for Spain, but it also represented a political chess piece in Italy, how better to curry favour with the Pope, then reconquering the Holy Land?
The King of Naples was not ignorant to these ambitions, and him being the titular King of Jerusalem, could hardly stand by. And as such, the politics of the Italian peninsular spread across the Mediterranean once again.
Hey folks, just a quick update to apologize for no updates, I wanna say I've been busy, but the truth really is that I have lost the interest in writing, and I don't wanna continue the TL if the only way I get updates is to guilt myself into writing them, that is not fun and this is supposed to be fun to make!
Anyways I hope the people that have been regular reading have found my first TL enjoyable, even though it had its fair share of flaws.
What I can say is that the experience writing this since January 2017, have not left a bad impression, and I hope (and think) I one day will either take this up again and fix some of the early mistakes, or starting another project, who knows.
If people are interested I can put up the general development of Dania that I had planned in a short timeline.
Anyways I hope the people that have been regular reading have found my first TL enjoyable, even though it had its fair share of flaws.
What I can say is that the experience writing this since January 2017, have not left a bad impression, and I hope (and think) I one day will either take this up again and fix some of the early mistakes, or starting another project, who knows.
If people are interested I can put up the general development of Dania that I had planned in a short timeline.
Thank you so much. Writing amazing TLs is not an obligation. I would like to know what you had planned for the future. Good luck!
That's eminently understandable. Thank you for creating this interesting scenario and fleshing it out so well.
Its been a good read and different take on so much of history. Hope to see it reappear one day and would like your notes on the development of Dania. 
I have deeply enjoyed your timeline, and are sad to see it end, but you have taken this timeline farther and deeper than most timeline authors can claim, and I think it's a bad idea to burn out, so I prefer you end it or put it on hiatus rather than burn out. I will love to see it restart a day, if you want to again, but I will also love to read other timeline by you or just reading your comment on other threads.
Also like @arctic warrior I would love to see your notes.
Thanks all for the fine words, it is one of the reasons I enjoyed writing the timeline, which overall I can only describe as positive endeavor. I think I will finish my Master (just one year left) and then we will see what happens I've plenty of ideas for new timelines, all centered around Denmark of course, because I am a bit of a fan boy. Though there is still much I want to do with this timeline, such as go back to fix the first posts. We will see. I will post my thoughts on how Dania (and some other stuff) would develop, in case that does not happen.
Rough timeline development:
Early 17th century:
I was building up for a big European War (how long it would last I had not decided). It would future Dania, France, Scotland, Halych-Volhynia, Savoy, Venice and Naples on one side and the majority of the remaining European nations: Moravia, Saxony, Russia, Lotharingia, England, Spain, Portugal, Genoa, Florence Milan and (later) The Papal States on the otherside.
The aggressor of said war would have been Moravia, which in an alliance with Saxony, Russia and England wanted to stop Danish dominance. From here the alliance network would take effect, when Lotharingia decided to throw in their support.
It would be a war that would be remembered as the first war where the war is also fought outside the European continent.
The rough results of said war:
India; Portuguese victory, The fledgling Danish trading posts taken or burned. The Danish presence is gone in the Indian ocean
West Africa; Danish victory, The Portuguese trading forts in OTL Nigeria (Lagos) and Kongo is taken over by Dania. Danish presence in West Africa is undeniable the strongest.
OTL South America;
Status Quo, Danish-French expedition attacking the Lotharingian colony of New Holland (at OTL Magdalena River/Río Magdalena) is a failure. generally Dania and France is surprised about how well developed said colony is.
OTL Brazil little happens, besides a Portuguese-Danish treaty allowing non-Portuguese merchants to sell and trade wares in the colony. This will prevent OTL Brazil from being hurt by the loss of Portuguese forts in West Africa.
Caribbean / OTL Central America; Dania takes control of the eastern part of OTL Cuba, Hispaniola is taken by France, French expedition attacking New Spain ends in failure.
Markland/ OTL North America; The French colony of ?Sylvanie? ( I think it was something like that..) is victorious over New Flanders, OTL Delaware River becomes the agreed border between the two.
Europe;
England takes control of Ireland, exept for the four "fortress cities"
Dania losses control over the former duchy Brunswick-Lüneburg, it retains several enclaves west of the Elbe. Brunswick-Lüneburg is once again a independent Duchy.
Dania losses control over Novgorod, which it had taken control of, in the previous Russian war.
Dania is acknowledged by Russia as the "owner" of the White Sea coastline.
Naples conquers the island of Sicily from Spain.
Various other territorial concessions. That I never decided exactly upon.
In general the idea was to have a Status Que of sorts, but still have some emerge as clear winners in their respective theaters. Dania itself needed to loss some territoy in Europe, it was pushing too many neighbours buttons.
Mid-late 17th Century:
Dania now having lost its presence in India will throw significant amount of money into West Africa, to try to develop it. it is not only very expensive, but the Europeans that arrive to do the job, seems to drop like flies, generally considered a complete failure. It nevertheless helps Dania cement its place as the principal power in West Africa.
Irish followers of the Nordic church leaves Ireland due to the heavy handed measures of their new English & Catholic overlords. Some go to Scotland but most go to either the Danish colonies or what becomes known as "New Ireland" (OTL Alabama-West Floria) said colony is under Dania, and will eventually form the western part of Nymark (Otl Georgia-South Carolina)
Lotharingia establish a presence in the Indian Ocean.
Dissatisfaction in Kronmark about Dania favouring France and ?Sylvanie? in the matters of border. (Danish settlers pressing into the Appalachian mountains from the east. While the more established parts of of Kronmark is not effected [OTL Quebec & The Great Lakes etc.], more newly established parts south of the great lakes rebels. Dania emerges victorious, but the cost is higher than expected. It is decided that Kronmark, in its entirety should pay for the cost of the rebellion. The extra tax will alienate the previously loyal parts of Kronmark.
By now OTL South America should have been colonized, but I did not have any specific plans. I was toying with the idea of both having France or Dania in position of OTL Venezuela and Argentina, though I'm leaning towards little or not Danish presence in OTL South America.
Early 18th century;
Lotharingia attacks its former allies, takes the last Portuguese trading posts in Western Africa (Included the cape), furteremore the English presence in OTL Maine is Incorporated into New Flanders.
English conquest of Scotland, the Lowlands will be integrated, the highlands very much not so.
The emergence of "The Irish Free State" or some name like that. A rebelion in the western part of Ireland spirals out of control, as Dania supports it. Dania only needing OTL Cork, hands over the three other "Fortress cities"/enclaves to the new Irish state. the capital of the Irish state is the former Danish enclave of Derry.
The reason for Cork remaining as part of Dania, is that it is the last harbour danish ships leave in Europe before going its colonies across the world.
Danish plans to establish a presence in the Indian Ocean reemerges after the failure of developing West Africa
Brazilian colony is cut off from Portugal, will in general enter a period of decline.
Mid-late 18th century;
Ambitious plan from Portugal sees Egypt fall into the control of Portugal, this will help Portugal keep contact with India, even though it lost control of its West African presence.
Large/Huge civil war in Dania, led by a fabolous wealthy descendant of Valdemar II (one of the Estridsen cadet branches) a charismatic but disillusioned man that believes he should be king. It is eventuelly defeated
Kronmark in its entirety rebels in the late 18th century, Dania unable to regain the former colony, (undecided about government form)
Danish plans in the Indian Ocean scrubbed, Danish plans in the spice islands where there is less European presence instead used. (I was thinking OTL Philippines)
19th century;
Revolution? probably not, but somekind of national awakening, so nationalism becomes a thing.
Generally I liked the idea about European wars being fought in the colonies and not so much in Europe.
Industrilisation of Lotharingia, later England and then rest of Europe. Dania have insane amount of natural resources but little coal, and what coal it have is in inhospitable places. It need to import coal from England and Moravia (OTL Rostock will benefit massively from the Silesian coal fields) eventually Dania will shift to water power as one of the first nations.
Race for Africa, Dania well located with by far the largest presence in west Africa.
20th century;
World Wars? in my mind I would be avoiding massive world wars, instead have several colonial wars instead.
Colonialism is probably gonna last longer, I like the idea about Europe developing their colonized areas more, but probably unlikely.
Three European nations will have over 100 million people at the end of the 20th century. France, Russia and Dania.
Lotharingia and Hungary will also have substantiel populations.
One of my goals was to not only to get Denmark with a much larger population, but to do so, I decided that I needed to do the same with Europe. if Possible, I'm unsure. But I like the idea. As you can see in the later centuries it got a lot less specifik.
I've plenty of ideas for new timelines, all centered around Denmark of course, because I am a bit of a fan boy. Though there is still much I want to do with this timeline, such as go back to fix the first posts. We will see. I will post my thoughts on how Dania (and some other stuff) would develop, in case that does not happen. I really have to thank especially you Jürgen, but also all the other people that have helped shape the timeline, without peoples knowledge about religion and other subjects I would not have gotten the timeline to where it is now. So thank you to you and all those people!
Rough timeline development:
Early 17th century:
I was building up for a big European War (how long it would last I had not decided). It would future Dania, France, Scotland, Halych-Volhynia, Savoy, Venice and Naples on one side and the majority of the remaining European nations: Moravia, Saxony, Russia, Lotharingia, England, Spain, Portugal, Genoa, Florence Milan and (later) The Papal States on the otherside.
The aggressor of said war would have been Moravia, which in an alliance with Saxony, Russia and England wanted to stop Danish dominance. From here the alliance network would take effect, when Lotharingia decided to throw in their support.
It would be a war that would be remembered as the first war where the war is also fought outside the European continent.
The rough results of said war:
India; Portuguese victory, The fledgling Danish trading posts taken or burned. The Danish presence is gone in the Indian ocean
West Africa; Danish victory, The Portuguese trading forts in OTL Nigeria (Lagos) and Kongo is taken over by Dania. Danish presence in West Africa is undeniable the strongest.
OTL South America;
Status Quo, Danish-French expedition attacking the Lotharingian colony of New Holland (at OTL Magdalena River/Río Magdalena) is a failure. generally Dania and France is surprised about how well developed said colony is.
OTL Brazil little happens, besides a Portuguese-Danish treaty allowing non-Portuguese merchants to sell and trade wares in the colony. This will prevent OTL Brazil from being hurt by the loss of Portuguese forts in West Africa.
Caribbean / OTL Central America; Dania takes control of the eastern part of OTL Cuba, Hispaniola is taken by France, French expedition attacking New Spain ends in failure.
Markland/ OTL North America; The French colony of ?Sylvanie? ( I think it was something like that..) is victorious over New Flanders, OTL Delaware River becomes the agreed border between the two.
Europe;
England takes control of Ireland, exept for the four "fortress cities"
Dania losses control over the former duchy Brunswick-Lüneburg, it retains several enclaves west of the Elbe. Brunswick-Lüneburg is once again a independent Duchy.
Dania losses control over Novgorod, which it had taken control of, in the previous Russian war.
Dania is acknowledged by Russia as the "owner" of the White Sea coastline.
Naples conquers the island of Sicily from Spain.
Various other territorial concessions. That I never decided exactly upon.
In general the idea was to have a Status Que of sorts, but still have some emerge as clear winners in their respective theaters. Dania itself needed to loss some territoy in Europe, it was pushing too many neighbours buttons.
Mid-late 17th Century:
Dania now having lost its presence in India will throw significant amount of money into West Africa, to try to develop it. it is not only very expensive, but the Europeans that arrive to do the job, seems to drop like flies, generally considered a complete failure. It nevertheless helps Dania cement its place as the principal power in West Africa.
Irish followers of the Nordic church leaves Ireland due to the heavy handed measures of their new English & Catholic overlords. Some go to Scotland but most go to either the Danish colonies or what becomes known as "New Ireland" (OTL Alabama-West Floria) said colony is under Dania, and will eventually form the western part of Nymark (Otl Georgia-South Carolina)
Lotharingia establish a presence in the Indian Ocean.
Dissatisfaction in Kronmark about Dania favouring France and ?Sylvanie? in the matters of border. (Danish settlers pressing into the Appalachian mountains from the east. While the more established parts of of Kronmark is not effected [OTL Quebec & The Great Lakes etc.], more newly established parts south of the great lakes rebels. Dania emerges victorious, but the cost is higher than expected. It is decided that Kronmark, in its entirety should pay for the cost of the rebellion. The extra tax will alienate the previously loyal parts of Kronmark.
By now OTL South America should have been colonized, but I did not have any specific plans. I was toying with the idea of both having France or Dania in position of OTL Venezuela and Argentina, though I'm leaning towards little or not Danish presence in OTL South America.
Early 18th century;
Lotharingia attacks its former allies, takes the last Portuguese trading posts in Western Africa (Included the cape), furteremore the English presence in OTL Maine is Incorporated into New Flanders.
English conquest of Scotland, the Lowlands will be integrated, the highlands very much not so.
The emergence of "The Irish Free State" or some name like that. A rebelion in the western part of Ireland spirals out of control, as Dania supports it. Dania only needing OTL Cork, hands over the three other "Fortress cities"/enclaves to the new Irish state. the capital of the Irish state is the former Danish enclave of Derry.
The reason for Cork remaining as part of Dania, is that it is the last harbour danish ships leave in Europe before going its colonies across the world.
Danish plans to establish a presence in the Indian Ocean reemerges after the failure of developing West Africa
Brazilian colony is cut off from Portugal, will in general enter a period of decline.
Mid-late 18th century;
Ambitious plan from Portugal sees Egypt fall into the control of Portugal, this will help Portugal keep contact with India, even though it lost control of its West African presence.
Large/Huge civil war in Dania, led by a fabolous wealthy descendant of Valdemar II (one of the Estridsen cadet branches) a charismatic but disillusioned man that believes he should be king. It is eventuelly defeated
Kronmark in its entirety rebels in the late 18th century, Dania unable to regain the former colony, (undecided about government form)
Danish plans in the Indian Ocean scrubbed, Danish plans in the spice islands where there is less European presence instead used. (I was thinking OTL Philippines)
19th century;
Revolution? probably not, but somekind of national awakening, so nationalism becomes a thing.
Generally I liked the idea about European wars being fought in the colonies and not so much in Europe.
Industrilisation of Lotharingia, later England and then rest of Europe. Dania have insane amount of natural resources but little coal, and what coal it have is in inhospitable places. It need to import coal from England and Moravia (OTL Rostock will benefit massively from the Silesian coal fields) eventually Dania will shift to water power as one of the first nations.
Race for Africa, Dania well located with by far the largest presence in west Africa.
20th century;
World Wars? in my mind I would be avoiding massive world wars, instead have several colonial wars instead.
Colonialism is probably gonna last longer, I like the idea about Europe developing their colonized areas more, but probably unlikely.
Three European nations will have over 100 million people at the end of the 20th century. France, Russia and Dania.
Lotharingia and Hungary will also have substantiel populations.
One of my goals was to not only to get Denmark with a much larger population, but to do so, I decided that I needed to do the same with Europe. if Possible, I'm unsure. But I like the idea. As you can see in the later centuries it got a lot less specifik.
cool stuff.Just.... something.
Proud to have been with you while you wrote this TL.