Russia is a LADY.
No, really: in Russian, nouns have gender, and "Russia" is feminine.
An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion
- Thread starter Basileus444
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No, really: in Russian, nouns have gender, and "Russia" is feminine.
Usually I'm not very interested in this aspect, but TL is the only one which made me care about military formations and strategies.
So currently the roman model is sound, but it does have a upper limit in manpower, am I wrong? the militias can be used and probably will be used in case of emergency but in the end this model will only run into trouble in the age of mass conscription?
There is that. Although I'd note two things.
1) Mass conscription may not make this model entirely irrelevant.
2) To paraphrase a German general of OTL: Mass alone is useless, it cannot manuever, it can only crush through sheer weight.
And given the Byzantine tradition of war, adopting the tools that favor "a small force of technicians" is going to be the natural and likely course of events - not inevitable, but supported by a very long tradition of warmaking.
The old Syrian theme is still just called the Syrian theme. By this point it has been around for almost 200 years, so the name has a lot of tradition behind it.
Hope you like what I have planned for the 30 Years' War. The plan is to have one more regular update, taking this up to 1522, then to have the special Plantagenet update. Arthur will be sixteen years old then...
The main weakness of the Roman army is land, since all 'enlisted' men are paid in land and cash so it cannot be enlarged except via conquest, which then carries new military obligations. Currently the Empire has eighteen themes, and if the non-thematic territories were added to the scheme (assuming that the islands, Venetia, and Kibyrrhaeotai (sp?) remain devoted to supporting the navy) it could support five more.
That would be a total of 230,000 men, which looks really good until some Latin power pulls a Louis XIV and starts fielding 400,000+. Mass conscription isn't necessary to out-manpower the Roman thematic army, since late-period ancien regime could match it; for example Prussia fielded 195,000 men in the mid 1700s. But once the levee en masse shows up, the thematic army would be at a massive disadvantage in manpower terms.
In short, assuming western European military development follows an OTL track, the current Roman army would remain superior until the mid 1600s, get matched around 1700, and be exceeded by the Revolutionary Period.
The tax-raise phobia is linked to Andreas Niketes and his concern for the common people. Theodoros IV admittedly didn't raise taxes, but he invented several new ones and Herakleios/Venera did raise taxes to help pay for the Herakleian Walls.
Edited the last entry to say 'Russia the Great'; still retains the sense of what I'm going for and is gender-ambigious.
Hope you like what I have planned for the 30 Years' War. The plan is to have one more regular update, taking this up to 1522, then to have the special Plantagenet update. Arthur will be sixteen years old then...
The main weakness of the Roman army is land, since all 'enlisted' men are paid in land and cash so it cannot be enlarged except via conquest, which then carries new military obligations. Currently the Empire has eighteen themes, and if the non-thematic territories were added to the scheme (assuming that the islands, Venetia, and Kibyrrhaeotai (sp?) remain devoted to supporting the navy) it could support five more.
That would be a total of 230,000 men, which looks really good until some Latin power pulls a Louis XIV and starts fielding 400,000+. Mass conscription isn't necessary to out-manpower the Roman thematic army, since late-period ancien regime could match it; for example Prussia fielded 195,000 men in the mid 1700s. But once the levee en masse shows up, the thematic army would be at a massive disadvantage in manpower terms.
In short, assuming western European military development follows an OTL track, the current Roman army would remain superior until the mid 1600s, get matched around 1700, and be exceeded by the Revolutionary Period.
The tax-raise phobia is linked to Andreas Niketes and his concern for the common people. Theodoros IV admittedly didn't raise taxes, but he invented several new ones and Herakleios/Venera did raise taxes to help pay for the Herakleian Walls.
Edited the last entry to say 'Russia the Great'; still retains the sense of what I'm going for and is gender-ambigious.
What nation's military history does Rhomania emulate? I'd naturally assume the USA because of your past posts but, one question. Is it an amalgam of different nations' weaknesses and strengths?
Because if it is, I would love to see Rhomania evolve from Gustavus Adolphus' Swedish Army to Frederick's Prussian Army, to Napoleon's Grande Armee, to Bismarck's Prussian Army/German Army to finally the American Army in and post WWII.
Since emulation is the best form of flattery wouldn't military development close up the gap faster? Europe would have an high standard set for quite some time now.
Thence the need to have the thematic system morphing into some kind of regimental system in the future. The territorial base is already there and considering the size of the Themes, what we could end up with would basically be some kind of "divisional system" where divisions AND regiments are all made up of units from the same area.
I would not be surprised at all if consequentlt the TTL word for division is something like Theme of Thema all over the world.
About that regimental system, couldn't it be like the cleisurai districts? maybe in the future they will be used again with due differences.
The problem is that developing proper organization is immensely difficult for a young wannabe nation.
Not impossible - just that speeding it up means more than "Hey the Romans have a good idea, let's copy it."
Ok, I could have used better words: the process wouldn't be nor easy nor feasible in a short time, but I think it's possible a relatively faster development ITTL. I'd think a few decades ahead of time could be possible.
I think so. It's just that the things that slowed it down OTL are still there, so pushing faster is going to mean having to overcome those - and that has consequences worth exploring.
Standing armies are expensive, and late medieval/early modern states lived a hand to mouth existence in terms of funding as is - so developing means of extracting more wealth and more labor might make for a more oppressive Europe - or conversely, a more Parliamentary Europe, as such bodies gain power in exchange for cooperation.
Interesting points you raise, I'll have to think them through (right know I'm awfully tired, time to go to bed
).Interesting points you raise, I'll have to think them through (right know I'm awfully tired, time to go to bed
No rush. Just something to explore if we go that route.
Good dreams, fellow AH-fan.
For Rhomania's military development I'm not following any OTL country's development specifically, although the War Room is an admittedly blatant Roman version of the Prussian/German General Staff. Right now I'd describe the inspirational base for the current Roman army as a mix of Macedonian-era Byzantine army, the Mongols, and the Prussians.
I am planning on using the Time of Troubles to spur some major army reforms.
The presence of the Romans will help spur administrative and military reforms in western Europe. With OTL development the point where the west matches Rhomania is 1700. I see no reason why it wouldn't be 50-100 years earlier ITTL. This doesn't mean that Rhomania will be standing still itself, but the west just has more room to grow. Right now I would classify Rhomania as a superpower. In time it will become just a great power, not because it declined, but because its competition grew.
Regarding Elfwine's comments about Europe becoming either more autocratic or parlimentarian in order to make more money, I'm hoping to have both tracks at the same time, just in different parts of Europe.
I have a question regarding China:
I believe that petitioners were required to prostrate before the Chinese Emperors. Are there any other individuals where petitioners, say foreigners, would be required to prostrate as well during an audience, such as a provincial governor or representative of the court? I'm brainstorming how I want initial Roman-(not Wu) Chinese contact to pan out.
I am planning on using the Time of Troubles to spur some major army reforms.
The presence of the Romans will help spur administrative and military reforms in western Europe. With OTL development the point where the west matches Rhomania is 1700. I see no reason why it wouldn't be 50-100 years earlier ITTL. This doesn't mean that Rhomania will be standing still itself, but the west just has more room to grow. Right now I would classify Rhomania as a superpower. In time it will become just a great power, not because it declined, but because its competition grew.
Regarding Elfwine's comments about Europe becoming either more autocratic or parlimentarian in order to make more money, I'm hoping to have both tracks at the same time, just in different parts of Europe.
I have a question regarding China:
I believe that petitioners were required to prostrate before the Chinese Emperors. Are there any other individuals where petitioners, say foreigners, would be required to prostrate as well during an audience, such as a provincial governor or representative of the court? I'm brainstorming how I want initial Roman-(not Wu) Chinese contact to pan out.
Dragos Cel Mare
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I don't really know about that, but I did read from a book that during OTL Catherine the Great's reign, there were Chinese emissaries that did the kowtow before her.
As von Hornigk put it "Whether a nation be today mighty and rich or not depends not on the abundance or security of its power and riches, but principally on whether its neighbors possess more or less of it."
Although I'd say Rhomania is between 1700 and 1800 depending on the exact things we're looking at.
Makes sense to me.
Going to be interesting to see which areas go which way. Russia is going to have the issue come up in the not so distant future, and really doesn't have a strong basis for representative government (yes, I know, Novgorod - but Novgorod has been an oligarchy with a strong Prince for a while now, and that oligarchy is not concerned with mere peasants).
Agree on everything, although in terms of military development I consider OTL France to have passed Rhomania by 1700, since with a similar resource base it fielded a much larger army of not appreciably inferior quality.
And on democracy, I don't think any early form of democracy was concerned with mere peasants.
I went on further than I thought I would about developments in Germany and Scandinavia, so decided that they'd warrant a short update of their own.
"A tough land breeds a tough people. Sweden is a land of iron. It is altogether fitting that it produces an iron queen."-attributed to Axel Torstenson, Swedish Chancellor
1520: Miklos Hunyadi immediately has his work cut out for him. The German nation is marching through Bavaria to the cheers of the local populace, the Vlachs are overrunning Transylvania with its lucrative silver and copper mines, and the Milanese have crossed the Piave. The local militias, of low morale and massively outnumbered are nonchalantly swept aside.
Tommaso’s problems though begin once he leaves the Friuli and enters Croatia. The Croats make it very clear that he is not welcome, a sentiment that is only reinforced when the Duke starts forcibly requisitioning supplies from the people. While the Venetians have been selling provisions to Tommaso, they are well aware of their advantageous market position and have been exploiting it thoroughly, to the discomfit of Milanese coffers.
Miklos decides to concentrate on Manfred, as he poses the greatest threat to the Hungarian heartland. Outside Bayreuth what is left of the Black Army of Hungary mauls a German column, killing the Count Palatine of the Rhine. His heir is a fourteen-month-old boy. Manfred immediately swoops into the territory, depositing a governor and garrison ‘to safeguard the security of the new Count Palatine in these trying times’.
Despite the war fervor, the German princes are growing wary of Manfred’s increasing autocratic tendencies. In June, the Margrave of Baden, the Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg, and the Counts of Hoya, Diepholz, and Nassau declare that they will no longer provide men, arms, and money for the war effort. Their justification (which is legitimate) is that Imperial agents have been placing levies on their lands and peoples without any regard or input from the sovereign princes, a blatant violation of their privileges.
As soon as word of the rebellion reaches Mainz, Pope Victor IV excommunicates the princes and all their supporters, ‘for their treachery to the Catholic, German, faith’. Templars are immediately dispatched to the region to woo away supporters from the princes while Manfred prepares his riposte. It is not long in coming.
Thanks to large emergency taxes on his sizeable north German domains, the landsknecht are wholly in the Emperor’s pocket. Supported by the highest-quality Saxon cannons and three thousand Russian mercenaries, including nine hundred of the fearsome archontes, Manfred can muster a vast and formidable host without drawing on a single coin or man from the princely domains.
At Bad Hersfeld, Manfred completely and utterly annihilates the rebel army, winning a complete and total victory. Backed to the hilt by Pope Victor, Manfred annexes the rebels’ land, disenfranchising their heirs (who are given the opportunity to prove their loyalty as carefully-watched soldiers in Manfred’s armies), and granting Hoya and Diepholz to the church, while Victor provides trained, educated clerks to Manfred for help in administering his new territories.
The thriving spa town of Bad Hersfeld today. Many scholars consider the battle fought just west of the town to be the beginning of the history of modern Germany.
Many students of history are confused by Pope Victor IV’s actions, which did much to strengthen Imperial authority in Germany, a trend contrary to typical papal action. However Pope Victor, himself a German born in Cologne, is a very staunch church reformer, who views virtually all of the church’s problems as being caused by ‘degenerate, lascivious, hedonistic, greedy Italians’. His solution to the problem is to Germanize the church. Even before his accession, sixty percent of the cardinals were German.
Victor continues the trend. The Templar Order is ninety five percent German, and its officers are all German. However his defense of a strong Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation is inspired more by the Romans. He attributes the large growth of Orthodoxy to the fact that that faith has a very large and powerful Imperial protector, and he aims to raise up the Holy Roman Empire in a similar fashion. Nevertheless his insistence on and acquisition of sizeable estates from the fallen rebels show that he has no intention of having the Catholic church subordinated to the Holy Roman Emperor.
Meanwhile in Kalmar King Christopher III of Denmark, fifteen years old, and Princess Catherine of Sweden, sixteen years old, are wed. Just two months later she is Queen of Sweden when her father passes away. Her accession is immediately challenged by a peasant revolt, spurred by her father’s heavy and regular taxation, administered by educated clerks from the new university at Uppsala.
Her response is quite similar to Manfred’s, a sharp, fast and absolutely overwhelming military response. Her father King Charles II had already used his sizeable Finnish estates, along with new iron foundries and timber exports to finance a small professional army four thousand strong, fighting much like mauroi and skilled in forest combat, making them the perfect counter to the Swedish peasant militias.
Also supporting Catherine is an unexpected but extremely generous windfall of cash, low-interest loans both from the van Afsnees and the Lotharingian court, courtesy of Mary of Antwerp. As Norway and Scotland stagger from the hammer blows of a resurging England, she is determined to maintain a terrible northern enemy to bleed England. Though likely apocryphal, her famous saying thoroughly sums up the Lotharingian queen’s position, “I will raise up a great and mighty foe that will vex England for a thousand years.”
The rebellion is quickly and bloodily crushed, making it the fourth peasant tax revolt in the last eleven years, all of which came to a similar end. In Denmark though, there is discontent over this potent reminder of Swedish strength, where it is remarked that Catherine is “the only man in the House of Estridsen.”
Catherine I of Sweden, from the series The Iron Queen
King Christopher III, Catherine’s new husband, cuts a very poor figure in contrast to his wife. Short and skinny, easily intoxicated and extremely fond of perfume and makeup, the only reason he is not considered a catamite is because of his numerous and exceedingly clumsy (and usually drunken) attempts to chase skirts (although the few that he does manage to catch typically complain of poor royal performance afterwards). In one infamous episode, on Christmas Eve a drunken Christopher starts groping one of his wife’s ladies-in-waiting in full view of Catherine, the Swedish and Danish courts, and the lady’s fiancé, the son of the Roman ambassador.
The woman cries, begging Christopher to stop, but Christopher, even more drunk than usual (perhaps because early that evening both the Roman and Rus ambassadors bowed to Catherine first and more deeply, a major and obvious political snub), angrily refuses, tearing her bodice. This attempt ends even more badly than usual for Christopher, as the humiliated woman turns and knocks him to the ground with one well-placed punch. There is silence, save that of the lady’s fiancé covering her with his cloak, until a blubbering Christopher staggers to his feet, ordering her arrest. A couple of guards start to step forward, until Catherine, who has remained silent all this time, speaks one word, “No.” The guards stand down.
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You've got me hoping for two things: 1) a restored Holy Roman Empire, and 2) the quick and speedy death of Christopher.
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